Musky 360 Podcast Episode 241: Summer Musky Rants
Podcast Transcript
Steven:
Alright folks, welcome to the Musky 360 podcast. Hey, hey, Jay bird.
Jay:
Hey Hey, Steve. Black muskie.
Steven:
Ohh Jay. Do you do drugs?
Jay:
Man, yes, everyday everyday sister.
Jay:
So it goes.
Steven:
Anyway, ohh my goodness, it is we're in the swing. I cannot believe like it's kind of. Crazy. I can't believe July is just around the corner. I'll say this every all the reports I'm hearing from folks, it doesn't feel like it's almost July on the muskie. Water. You know, it's just kind of craziness. I had some buddies. They were just up hitting some big water in Minnesota, you know, and it was flooded out. They got a they got a 50, they got some other fish there. But you know, it's not that hot early bite. I think everybody's hoping for. We'll be hearing this week. We're we're working out some technical difficulties.
Jay:
Yeah.
Steven:
Just the tech end of getting that Canadian Muskie podcast put together here, but it's a matter of days. But you know, talking to Danny Herbeck, it's it's a slow start up there as well, you know? So just just be prepared for that. You're going to get some up-to-date Canadian muskie fishing tips and tricks. Probably tomorrow in the day or two or whatever, we'll have it on that. But you know, about a 20 minute thing where they're just hard hitting Jay, hard hitting Muskie news.
Jay:
Before, I'm glad.
Jay:
MMM.
Jay:
Hard hitting journalism, they call that.
Steven:
Huh. Anyway, people that just don't get on here and. Ramble about Caddyshack references.
Speaker 1
I could do a little short man.
Jay:
If you want.
Steven:
Your little folks, welcome to the Caddyshack podcast.
Steven:
Steven:
I keep playing, keep playing the heavy stuffs, not gonna.
Jay:
Heavy stuff's not going to.
Steven:
Come down for quite a while I felt that way today though.
Jay:
Ohh.
Jay:
Like yeah, I heard you got stormed out again.
Steven:
Yeah, well, the thing was this. Got a really nice fish, you know? Put it, put about a 40 in the boat for a first time. Female angler and she was elated and we saw just Donkey Kong earlier. Jay, just like this. Just. Big, big. Girl and you see the storm coming in? I was like playing. I was. I was out there too long. You know what I'm saying? But you're like, oh, here it comes. This is perfect scenario. And then just the Lightning started everywhere. And it's like run run for your lives, you know, play play overplayed the hand by one round there. But yeah, it was.
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
One, but it happens. You got it. You got to. I do not recommend when you see lightning get off the water. But I was. I was about 5 lightning strikes too late, you know. And then you're doing that boat ride to doom. It's been an interesting week for me though Jay. I may have, I told you. Like 3 days ago got stung by a Hornet. So if you want to know on the face, folks on the face. On the face.
Jay:
Good times.
Steven:
Remember the movie mask Jay? With that guy's like uglier than sin I puffed up so bad I look like somebody, like, literally just lined up on me with a T-ball bat.
Jay:
So the sunglasses never came off. That day is what you're telling me.
Steven:
This settled the. Dude, the sunglasses were hurting my face. It was like swollen. My eyebrow was like I have CRO Magnon forehead. You know, I could have been in a documentary about like 2 BC and I'm like they're just bashing rocks together. I look ridiculous. It was funny. I felt like crap. Took a bunch of Benadryl, like, way too, like, way more than they recommend and had the crazy streams ever anyway, so that was just funny. Don't get stung by a Hornet. As the lesson there, let's look at the comings and the goings. Oh, we should talk about this first before I talk about what's new at the Muskie shop the bash. Got a couple emails.
Speaker
So.
Steven:
This week it is July 20th. This year. Saturday, Jay Jays got kind of a comprehensive list, or at least a quick every talk about cause people like he's going to be there. He's not. So Jay Jay will be able to rattle off in a second. He's going to be there, but we have a special new edition.
Jay:
Yep.
Jay:
We do.
Steven:
Of of a. A elmers rub down Booth. He'll be doing massages right there. Just that. Do you know that's all you need to know?
Jay:
Yes.
Jay:
Hmm. OK.
Steven:
I think they're 5 bucks a pop. Jay is what I'm thinking.
Jay:
Right, OK. OK. So it's like a kissing booth.
Steven:
But different but but but for back rubs for the ladies. Ladies only.
Speaker 1
OK, OK. OK. OK. That sounds like it sounds like my Elmer.
Steven:
Alright.
Steven:
Elmer's giving the ladies a rub down. You want a back rub from Elmer? 5 bucks anyway, Jay, who's gonna be there at least?
Jay:
No kidding? Well.
Steven:
A rough list of everybody you can rattle off the top of your head.
Jay:
I'm prepared. OK, let's tackle. Smitty's Smitty's will be there, Livingston Lures.
Steven:
Boo. Very.
Jay:
Quick, so it's going to have a booth and everybody's going to have sales. We're going to have massive specials, Shimano dial out Joe Bucher, Joe Bucher Outdoors, Saint Croix, Saint Croix, rods, maps, Figure 8 with all the new stuff they got.
Steven:
Bucher will be there. Naps.
Jay:
Lakewood tackle boxes, Red Dog spinner baits hooked on musky baits account.
Steven:
Jay:
Fish lab, B and N tackle all the way from Ohio.
Jay:
Hand me cream. Thanks.
Steven:
Yeah, there they are. They're awesome, Bates. Absolutely.
Jay:
Stove master Nets Wolverine tackle yellow bird violent strike with all the cool weed and stuff that Keith makes Reck n Rack, musky innovations. Musky mayhem. Basically everybody. Slammer, tackle, musky paint? Stealth tackle? Yeah, there's. Yeah, there's a lot.
Steven:
Basically that's that's pretty much everybody. Yeah, you know.
Jay:
It's gonna be great. It's gonna be great. And plus you get Steven, Paul and Jay Esse there in the flesh, you know.
Steven:
Boo. Yeah, Boo. And it doesn't cost you anything. You don't have to. Pay a door. Fee.
Jay:
No, it's free. No free parking. Yeah, just enjoy the savings and the specials and all the free stuff we're giving away.
Steven:
It's. You know. No, no, no, no, no free back rubs at Elmer's Booth. That's for the ladies only.
Jay:
No, no. Well, that's a pay-per thing, so.
Steven:
Yep, that's a that's a paid service.
Jay:
Yes.
Jay:
He has a 900 number set up in advance here, so you can book a time. Yep, he's.
Steven:
Absolutely you can you get.
Jay:
Your slots for all planned.
Steven:
Out Elmer's Asian massage. And dent in dentistry. So he bought the chair. You might as well make the most of it. So anyway, goodness gracious, that's gonna be that's gonna be.
Jay:
Mm-hmm. Right. Right.
Jay:
Well, it's been fun, Steve. It's gonna be fun.
Steven:
Jay:
It's a month away.
Steven:
Time.
Steven:
So much fun.
Jay:
Woo.
Jay:
For you to go fishing together pound some hogs hopefully, huh?
Steven:
On and off the boat anyway, so. Freaking idiot. So let's talk about the new stuff you've got the Joe Bucher. Stars and stripe depth Raider.
Jay:
Yep, Yep. They sold out. We got more coming this week, so ohh. Gone immediately. Yeah. So leave your click on what do you call that? The notification for a restock and just put your e-mail in there. You'll get an e-mail.
Steven:
Ohh, they're gone already Joe.
Jay:
Would they get?
Steven:
Restocked is the hot perch out, too. Is that show up already?
Jay:
That's another new color. He's got some new colors in the JB Rattlers and.
Steven:
Without a stock, yeah.
Jay:
Like that gin book color too. So yeah, there's a bunch of bunch of new colors, and the Bucher stuff, not to mention all the all the custom stuff that we the exclusive custom stuff that we had coming last week from him.
Steven:
Jay Jay recommended if Bucher is going to do the stars and stripes, the American flag on the depth there, should we? We do like the the the classic German flag on a Titan when he.
Jay:
Right. So it's going kind of in a different direction, but.
Steven:
Oh oh, just doesn't have the same. Doesn't have the same feel. No, no, in fact. So. Sorry thing to be stupid folks. Ohh yeah, I'm looking here and you got the JB rattler you got the Wonder bread and you got the what? What? Like are they just on fire for wonder bread? Could it just be white? Did the spots matter? Am I asking the card hitting questions that nobody asks?
Jay:
All the spots are beautiful. Hey. Did you see those BKK Hooks came in. We were talking about those short shank.
Steven:
Yeah. Are so those are diesel
Jay:
Brown burns.
Steven:
Diesel. If you're serious about hooks, they're you're. Where are they? Where are they? Man? There's your euro hooks. Tim turned me on these forever ago. BK that is a wide gap when it comes to a wide gap hook, by the way, they're pretty. They're pretty big. In the gap zone.
Jay:
They're big, so if you're sizing those up really go about, they're off about two sizes from American Hooks, most American hooks.
Steven:
So like. I was like A7.
Jay:
Yeah, like 1/0, not BKK. Would be like a normal three out in the VMC, so keep that in mind if or you know call 1st and say hey, I'm matching it up for this type of bait and we'll be happy to try to do that for someone just the other day. So no problem.
Jay:
Right, they.
Steven:
Something I will tell you on these hooks. These are sharper then sharp gets. Out of the pack.
Jay:
And stronger than strong gets, they're really good.
Steven:
They're they're you're. You're paying for them. I mean to say I'm going to call it is what it is. 30 bucks.
Steven:
Yeah.
Steven:
For 25 bucks. But. They are wicked sharp now. When Tim, I got on Tim’s in the Netherlands you know and I. Just whip it.
Jay:
MHM.
Steven:
I travel with one thing, Jay, a Smitty file at all times. You know. You just. I'll be at dinner. Oh, no, just this. Well, both.
Jay:
Or hook sharpener or a shaker?
Jay:
No.
Steven:
Thanks for blowing my cover, but I'll be at dinner at, you know, Texas Roadhouse. I'll break out my Smitty file and sharpen my own knife, right. Go and I go nowhere without it.
Jay:
So you do that to impress people.
Steven:
Just women.
Jay:
Just like, hey, check this out. Check this out. Your knife isn't sharp enough. I'm just gonna show you how.
Steven:
It's done. Yeah, it's normal down here, though. Pretty cool. Every everybody does that. If you if you don't, you're not cool anyway. So I both felt my Smitty file and go to town on one of these hooks. And Tim looks at me like I'm the dumbest. Person ever. You gotta be judicious. That's a thin point. And I'm just warning you like, don't. Hog material off of it, right? So if you're you're gonna use the premium hooks come at them with with a light, light stroke. Jay, if you will, just a light just tap. It in Tippy tap tap, tap, tap tap tap. Tap tap but you know it doesn't take a lot to get those razors. Sharp. They're really good hooks. And then if you're. Serious about hooking? That'd be for you anyway. When you say Tin Buck, what else is cool? It's cool. Some other stuff going up. What new Tin Buck color? Black and orange is that? Is that the new Bucher tail color? Is that black and.
Jay:
No white tail with a black.
Steven:
Blade. Nice. Pretty cool. Yeah, that. Works.
Jay:
Yeah, yeah.
Steven:
I'll say this black blades. One thing a little tricky. Risky here because it's coming up around the corner, especially in your neck of the woods, the algae bloom. That August Green that happens sometimes, right? You get on these lakes. I'm thinking about a certain lake. There's a couple me & you fish down. They get that green nastiness to them.
Jay:
Well.
Steven:
Black on black. Another thing I'll tell you is this pressured fish. Blackout blades helps.
Jay:
Hmm.
Steven:
Right. That's just a whole other conversation, but even powder-coated blades like that, they get that freaking mepps musky flashabou black blades, black skirt. That's kind of money. But like the blackout blades are pretty cool eliminating the flash.
Jay:
What do you what do you think it is with black blades? Because they kind of look like? Nickel blades when they're coming in. And but they're dull. You know what they don't have that that metallic finish to it. Do you think that is? Think that's what it is? It's just like sometimes the flashiness isn't the trick, and it's just like you want more of.
Steven:
when I've used them and I've seen them excel or I'm on fish that are pressured like community spots in Canada or, you know, pressure water. Place. Where they're seeing a lot of Bucktails, but they're kind of inaccessible for anything else. The colored blades seem to do something, I mean color, but the blackout blades right wear the vibrations there, but it doesn't have that same flash. So that almost goes. Is there, like, a visual?
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
Thing that's off putting to the flash. I don't know. We. Maybe we're getting the fish too much credit. Maybe it's like confirmation bias or something of that nature, but that's one of the few changes in coloration I've seen that. Actually kind of matters. You know, it's kind of a different deal there where you go, huh? That, that, that actually played and and.
Jay:
Yes.
Steven:
Maybe it maybe it adds to the silhouette. Who knows? I know in that pea soup and that green algae bloom stuff that happens, fish, fish will respond positively that black on black, regardless of of light penetration. Because it seems like that algae kind of like minimizes light penetration. You would think I was professional because I didn't think about the Segway. That just segue, Jay. Doctor Bob crawled out of his lab right out of the Doctor Bob lab. That's his basement. It's where he keeps these action figures. But I got nothing to say. I got it. Listen, I got my Ninja Turtles here with. I could reach out and touch my collection of Ninja Turtles in the package, Jack. But it's kind of weird. It's kind of lame nonetheless.
Jay:
Ohh wow.
Steven:
Doctor Bob put together a another magnum opus. On the app, it's a light penetration article. It's very well done. It really cuts the core of the matter of some lot of discussions. He and I have had. Me and Jay have had on the podcast, so that's worth the read over at the old Apple Ruski. Jay. Worth the read there, but anyway, that's that's good stuff. But yeah, the the black on black seems to do something. Collar blades. I mean, it is what it is. I mean, I think minimizing flash sometimes is the ticket. You know, what do you do? Just keep hucking just keep chucking. Goodness, let me flip over here, Jay. I have. I've just got it here on the you. You talked about journalism over here.
Jay:
MHM.
Steven:
Just got it on the Muskie 360 news blotter. Just got word. It's confirmed. Doctor Juice never even graduated high school. Jay, he's not a real doctor. What's your reaction? No.
Jay:
The whole thing is a farce.
Steven:
He's not even a real doctor. And he's been peddling his juice all over town.
Jay:
Ohh what a liar.
Steven:
Could have caught it. Mr. juice. Jay.
Jay:
Doesn't have the same ring though, Steve.
Steven:
Mr. Goose just does not. Reverend Juice is weird. Mr. juice. But I I know why he.
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
Went with doctor. But it's time everybody. People need to know.
Jay:
You can't say the doctor isn't in anymore.
Steven:
No, Mr. juice is in. Anyway, just send off the the data, the drive, the fatigue, if you will, for Jay, for another kind of master classy thing of video. So here very shortly going to him. I think something that people will dig it, which is a deep dive on spinner baits. You got Oh my God, spinner baits Jay.
Steven:
Jay:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Steven:
Apparently there's more you can do, so I'm I'm kind of stoked about that. I want, like, when that comes out, if you watch that video and you dig it, send a message to the app or something, because I trying to just do it different of ****, I actually do on the. Boat opposed to Boo Boo. You know, like giving up some ninja tricks or whatever and. I think some different tactics for sure and and today, once the Hornets sting subsided. By the way. That didn't look like a ********* dude. I was able to shoot the last half of it, so if you go wow, it's different days. Yeah, because I got stung by a freaking Hornet on the face.
Jay:
Ma.
Steven:
And I didn't really want to film a video with my eyes swollen up like I'd been hit with a T-ball bat.
Jay:
It would have been cool though.
Steven:
But you know, I I I asked Jody when I was doing film. I said, what do you think she said? Oh my God. That was just rapid fire. I was just like. You know, 17 minutes worth of mods and I don't think I spent more than 30 seconds on a single one. It was like as many as I can come up with showing you some stuff, so hopefully it catch it, catch you guys some more muskies here shortly, but. Jay. It's raining. I can hear the Thunder. I can hear the lightning. We better get some Q&A here before the power goes out and get after it. I'm going to put you on the spot. We need a pretty bash giveaway, though.
Jay:
Steven:
Right. Look our pre bash giveaway. Think about it. Maybe we do it at the end. That's not a plug we haven't talked about this, but every year we kind of do something, so. Oh crap, dude.
Speaker
- OK.
Steven:
All right. Can can you guys keep a secret? Just nod yes in your car. We're at work.
Jay:
Yeah.
Steven:
OK, so we've done the get everybody to sign a block of cheese last year, right? And we've done bring Joe Bucher deviled eggs. I'm telling you right now, I'm going to make sure you get the most awesome grab back. You've got to make Joe Bucher macaroni art and take it to him, right? Get you some dry macaroni, glue it on some construction paper or printer paper. What do you got? Whoever makes the weirdest thing and you've got to take it to jail and be like I made this cause I've been thinking about.
Steven:
You.
Steven:
That's it. Just hand it to him. Right. Like maybe you just write Joe Bucher and macaroni and glue it on. There you go, Joe. And the more vacant I'd you can be too, is the better. Like Joe, I've been thinking about you and I made this. I just want to see his reaction. So whoever makes a piece of Joe Bucher macaroni art. Just hand it to him. Make sure he's very confused and be as creepy as possible about it. You will leave with awesome ****. I promise you that. So every year.
Speaker 1
Yeah, well.
Jay:
We got some grab bags, baby.
Steven:
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, dude, last year, like, freaking some of these people, we've loaded up. It's like, see me and Jay behind the barn. That's where the real actions happening. You know, we're back here shooting dice and giving away free **** on a black market, stuff going on back there, Steve.
Jay:
For sure.
Steven:
Listen kids, Jay opens these trench coat. You want to see a real hog wobbly.
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
And then you're in the game. He's got pants on. At that point, it's actually the bait, the hogwash or something we should say. And I'm just rambling, having a good time. Sad announcement Jane learned this week about the passing of the maker of Gucci's Tallywhacker.
Jay:
Randy. Yeah, yeah.
Steven:
That's so sad to hear that. Yeah, well wishes to them, you know, hopefully the Gooches brand will carry on. We're we're losing.
Jay:
I mean.
Steven:
A lot of what I call heritage baits, we just are whether it be what was the ghost tales is gone. You know, a lot of what it's fuzzy does it if one of them. There's so many of these different things. Yeah. So a lot of different things changing man. So just, just to let you guys know, hopefully that brand carries on.
Jay:
No. Some like some like cattle.
Steven:
But condolences to them, because that's kind of a legendary bait and definitely an important important part of the history of Muskie. Fishing was the Gucci's tallywhacker for sure. Absolutely. You know, that's it. They made the Gucci's banana. I and I gotta tell you this, I've. Got a hell. Of a lot of traction out of saying the word Gooch. In the podcast, Jake, I hope they continue on because the word Gooch and the word tallywhacker gives me a lot of runway.
Jay:
So always has.
Steven:
Always has, hopefully always wills condolences to them guys. Anyway, moving on, get fired up. Jay, let me hear it. We'll take a swig here.
Jay:
Woo.
Jay:
Fired up. I'm just incredibly fired up, Steve. I don't know what we.
Speaker 1
That. Got but it's going to be. Good dude. You're like Frick.
Steven:
Are we still going to bingo when I come?
Steven:
Up.
Jay:
Yeah, I I haven't looked into it yet, but Oh my gosh, I drove by the Community Center in Saint Germain the other night. I I have a feeling they're on Tuesday nights because I don't know what was going on there. But.
Steven:
Ohh ****.
Steven:
Done, baby. It was packed. It was the poke guy and.
Speaker 1
It. He must have been bingo, bill. It must have.
Steven:
Been must big, we're doing it. We're playing bingo. Done.
Jay:
Ohh yeah.
Steven:
As long as they're not doing sobriety checks, I'm in. Can you? Is it legal to play bingo drunk? Ohh, sure. Better be, bill.
Jay:
Steven:
Could you guys please explain? Ohh boy. Give me a moment. I don't pre.
Jay:
Screen collect yourself.
Steven:
Bill, could you guys please explain what happens during the Muskie spawn? Well, Billy. When love each other.
Jay:
Two Muskies get together. Sorry, you're terrible. I'm terrible.
Steven:
Like me and your mom. And.
Steven:
They decided.
Steven:
To just sit down. I'm gonna have a talk, Billy. When two muskies love each other like me and your mother. We go into the shallows and we bite the crap out of each other and we rub on each other until we both just go. And it happens. Is that how the talk went for? You, Jay? Yeah. So like that. Match. It's always awkward anyway, so during the spawn and he he continues on, he he he says that he feels like he knows he's a little bit behind for some places and to be honest with you word I'm getting it's still happening in some places in Canada by the. Way, yeah, I heard. Yeah. So it's a late spot in some places. What muskies do in general is they're going to stage outside of spawning areas. They use these same areas year after year after year, as long as they're not interrupted.
Jay:
Good.
Steven:
OK, pretty interesting study was done on a river where they shocked or harassed Muskies that were spawning that were tagged right. I'm paraphrasing greatly here. Well, guess what the Muskies did. They didn't go back to that spot for the next spawn. Which is a big part of why we have closed seasons in most places or in some places, so they're not getting pestered right. They don't want to be harassed or caught during that time they will stay. Each outside of the spawning area leading up to it, and then the females go in and the males go in. They pair up and they they they do what Muskies do best at that time here. But as far as the angling experience, you know you can refer some of the the priest spring episodes of the early season stuff we've done. But generally what Muskies. To the stage suspended in slightly deeper water on the outside of the spawning area when temperatures are right or the foot appears right, they move in, they pair up. Right, it's debatable. I've heard a lot of conversation. Do the males go in first or the females go in first? Who knows? I mean, Doctor Bob was actually on my boat one time where we're looking on paying. Obviously, we saw a just pack of big females. Yeah, it was. It was one of the more vulgar things I've ever seen. On on, on live scope and down down imaging and we're.
Speaker 1
Like whoa.
Steven:
And they're just they're like. Stacked everywhere, right? Just big fish.
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
No interest in any baits. Nothing. I mean literally I took a bondy bait and I'm paying up. It's I banged off the one head and it was like didn't even respond like you saw the base like the wink and I felt it and like just nothing. So those fish are typically geared up caloric wise and as we know they're they're they're not going to eat. During the spawn, so they're going to stage outside those areas and then when that magic moment happens. Some places the males are in first, some places the females are in first. It changes up based on where you're at. They pair up, they do their business. Yakety Smack Kitty, right. Females kind of knock out their deal once, I don't know. And it's a good question. If the males can. What they're. Jay, when two people love each other. Like the Muskies do. I don't know if the males just keep rocking in the free world or if it's like a one and done. I think they probably have a couple couple rounds in them. You know what I'm saying? Couple of rounds. That's what happens moving.
Jay:
The I don't know. I don't know.
Steven:
On. Man, it could get before it gets real awkward, Jay. Sure. Hank's looking to gear up for my annual Wisconsin trip. What baits? What baits seem to be getting the most attention? Currently, I know Jay knows. Cause who? Whatever they're buying at the shop, that's a good question. Whatever they're buying at the shop is what they're hitting.
Steven:
Can.
Steven:
Dang. Hank. Right there. Jay, what do you see going over the counter right now?
Jay:
Yeah.
Jay:
The last week, last week's been up and down, but it was a cool week. Here again, a lot of days were really cool. The water's not warming up much. I was out today. Same deal. Yeah. Yeah. You'll have like, 2 days where most of the reports are Bucktails. And then you'll have two days. Most of the reports are. Actually. Soft plastics. You're getting a little bit of top water action. Not much though for the most part. Don't think it's. I don't think the water's warm enough to to promote that enough. That's been, I mean, I had some action, you know, trolling crankbaits and casting crankbait and crankbaits small stuff, 6 inch stuff, slammers.
Steven:
Like when you're.
Steven:
When you're saying when you're saying no buck houses like Bucher tell 5 hundreds, is it like little stuff? What are you seeing guys like?
Jay:
It's not big stuff, it's it's predominantly small stuff like musky killers, musky, flashable wars, little RJ's Bucher, tail 700, stuff, 500 stuff, small stuff still plays big time, yeah.
Steven:
Look I.
Jay:
It's the. That's what I did today. Downsize. I got one dank, but it was, you know, it was small bucktail.
Steven:
Railing very nice.
Jay:
No.
Steven:
No. What do you how do you? How do you prepare him?
Jay:
Ohh delicious fish.
Steven:
Delicious. What a delicious fish. I'm sorry. Jay, I've. I talked to her this week about. I've heard from people. Why do these guys not take it seriously and then like you and I like, we're always just clowning around sitting here going. Jay has, what, 25 years? Plus, I'm at like year 23. It's like after that long. You just go. Let's have fun. You don't eat Muskies. But I'm sorry. Some people just they, they're some people are in their moms basement. You know, selling, selling, fricking Beaver baits and whatever. Moving on. Sure.
Jay:
Yeah. So some people.
Steven:
How serious? You know what? That's it, Jay. We're going to get real serious. You ready? Get super serious about muskie fishing.
Jay:
Do. 100% let's down. It sounds like sarcasm, but it's not. I'm very serious.
Steven:
No, I'm ready. I'm very serious today grinding.
Steven:
On.
Steven:
OK, Bradley, I think should Clear Lake and I've always struggled with spooky Muskies. What tips do you have to convert more fish in the figure? Right in Gin Clearwater, before they break off?
Speaker
The fish.
Steven:
OK, first and foremost, you can play mornings and evenings in Clearwater to minimize that. It's like the the Super basic answer for you, right?
Jay:
Like check the box. Yep.
Steven:
Well, you know, if you.
Steven:
Move if you move him in the noon time, go get him in the evening. Alright. Well, sometimes they're just not there. OK, Grandpa, put away the old tips. No one cares. So how do we actually convert more fish in that scenario? If we're patterning Clearwater fish. I have always been of the mindset of some dramatic thing. What I call a mid cast trigger. Right. What can we do? That is dramatic change up in the middle of the cast. Whether we know officials there or not. Do something different before we get to and it goes to Doctor Bob's article. The level of light penetration where fish can see the angle that they sub tend when the light hits their eyes. All these reasons. That things go bad. Boat size, clear water is tough and I'm if he's saying Jim Claire, I mean, there's clear water, there's, you know, blah, blah, blah water. There's places where it looks like a, you know, you're fishing in a bottle of Fiji, you know, it's just clear. Focus on mid cast triggers. I'm big on. Clearwater scenarios where, let's say I'm fishing a meat grinder and I don't say bucktail, but I'm going to the knee jerk reaction like the Steves meat grinder. Where there's dead stick options, so Clearwater baits for me are dead stick baits or baits that do something on the rise or on the fall. OK, so you can kind of get your 30 feet off the boat and you're going and I should preface this whole thing. Clearwater fish take long. Tests. It really does, especially if we're in calm condition. I'm not a bomb caster, but in this scenario, if it's clear you're not dealing with a bunch of chop, just a moderate chop or no chop, you're gonna have to make some bomb casts, right? So what you need to think about is spacing yourself. Out. Boat control wise, where you're getting plenty of saturation on area. And then where is kind of like the first break or where does the cover or the structure change? And then do I have some runway between myself and that so, you know, thinking of, say, like a Minnesota weed bed, Jay, you could have the boat sitting in 30 feet, but you're throwing up to two feet and, you know, 3/4 here, cast it over the weed bed. And we have this drop off dead stick option. So spinner baits, right. Big rubber presentations jerk baits like the cracking or your red October and swim baits, and what can we do? Where we go? OK, I'm confident that I'm hitting the right area.
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
I'm hitting the right target zones where I've been moving Muskies when I'm 30 feet out from the boat. What am I going to do to trigger a strike? You've got to go. I have his attention. You've gotta assume each cast is a follow, right? And after a while with Clearwater Muskies that keep coming in. Breaking off. Keep coming and breaking. Breaking off. You're beating your head against the proverbial wall.
Steven:
Well, they broke off before the Figure 8. Ohh boy.
Steven:
Better keep doing it.
Steven:
What are we going to? Do before they break off. That's going to elicit a strike. Yeah. Two options. The bait falls. Or it rises. That's it. That's all we have the physical prop physical ability to do right now. Right. The bait can't go 100 yards to the left or 100 yards to the right. It can rise or it can fall. So spinner baits in Clearwater are far more important to me than Bucktails because a spinner bait has a triggering mechanism on the fall big rubber. Rubber jerk baits. Like I said, you're cracking and then dive and rise. Baits your your your suits, your your tightens your in lieu of you know out of respect the gooches banana. David Rise Bates become an option in in tough conditions with Clearwater Muskies because you can at least let that thing float up to the surface. Give it a couple twitches before you jerk it back down with the Titan or with a spinner bait. Take your your book or tail your grim Reaper, your red dog, whatever you're moving in, you're moving in like I was talking. When you see this video I'm talking about rip moves and pickpocketing with spinner rates. You can do that 30 feet off the boat like straight retrieving it, and then we do this like lift fall routine. Mid cast triggers are super important in Clearwater scenarios. Your Bulldogs rip rip, rip pull. You're getting close to the boat. Just let that sucker fall. Right. He'll nose down on it and follow it down, then rip it up. Come up with things that elicit a response. Now it's going to it's going to be different in each body of water you fish, but I'm always going to focus on baits that have action while not being reeled, pulled, or jerk in that scenario.
Steven:
MHM.
Steven:
That's the best way to look at it. So if that bait needs momentum. Right. To have an action. It's kind of off the radar for me. You know like. You could in theory do well with, say, like a hell hunter or phantom. But like yeah, it falls and it rocks a little bit. But is it gonna be dramatic enough to drive that fish's head down, then rip up, you know? I want a sink rate and I want action on the fall or action on the rip up or action on the pull up before I get this fish coming in. The only other commentary would say is this after that mid cast trigger I'm getting down and I'm driving that bait down. With a low rod angle. In hopes that they don't break up when they come in in the figure, right. That I can keep them below level light penetration. I can keep them from spooking out. What do you think, Jay?
Jay:
Yeah. Well, you were talking about being in 30 feet of water and on Minnesota Clear Lake and casting up to a, you know, to a weed line. And you can't see, but you're looking at it on your, on your electronics. And that's just like, that's a mindset thing. I think most people. Have. That don't have a lot of experience might might really struggle with that. I classic line from Doug Smith at at work the big. Like it would always crack me up is when you talk about clients that get nervous if they can't see the weeds. Yeah. So you know, and he's he's in the proper spot. So, you know, it's just like, OK, they're right there. This is what we need to be doing. We can't be on the weed that cash into it.
Steven:
When they can't see it. How you get over that?
Jay:
Because we want to effectively work that drop off so you get past that or have that mindset that you're in the right spot and. And you're functionally going to have a really good percentage shot at a super hug or any by doing that. That's right.
Steven:
So.
Steven:
Listen, it's like Jays plan. You gotta stay until close if you want a super hog. That's like fishing dark. You know, last call for Muskies. Last call for Super Hogs, the JSE.
Jay:
Yeah. Yeah.
Steven:
Story. Long story short, if you've never backed off. An edge. A tremendous distance. You're not confident in that because I get it. Like I deal with clients every single day, and I'm going. We're throwing at a Creek channel that's in the. Middle of a Bay what? I thought we'd be fishing weeds. Sometimes we're not. We're shoreline, shoreline, right. And I do. I'll say this. I I would say 75% of my time on the water is nowhere near Shoreline. By the way. That's a whole other animal. But I just bores me.
Jay:
And the other 50% of the time was spent trying to convince the clients that you're in a great spot in a.
Steven:
No. Great position my 100% of times going. I don't care what they think, don't care, shut up and cast, fool. And now I'm. I'm I'm a very light touch on the boat. I I try to explain what we're doing thoroughly, but if you've never been comfortable with with not having that visual target, so you got a bomb, can't go in on your trolling motor. Most of us, if if you don't have one, that's fine. And I'll give you 2 options if you don't have. A graph in the front you can use casting buoys. Right. Hell, you can use a milk jug on a string. Go in and drop waypoints on the weed edge. That you're throwing at. So you know your boat control is good enough to stay on the outside edge. Right. Would you rather catch a fish? And spend 5 minutes marking a weed edge on your trunk when you go. I'm right on the weed edge with my trunk. More way .1 go down 20 feet way. .2 go down again. Way .3 right. And do that, or would you rather be out for an hour, fishing the edge with ****** boat control? And there's this weird breakup with Muskie Gate. We gotta be casting go in and mark the edge with waypoints on your on your front graph. Then back off to your very confident the other commentary. I still like my freaking whatever brand they are. I probably bought them seven. Hell, I probably didn't buy. My dad probably bought him 1972. Of these boys, I use them way more. Than you would ever think. So fishing reefs in Canada? Here's a boy on one end and a boy on the other end. I don't need to be watching my graph and not casting a boy to the left boy the right. That's my line. There those tools are are very useful. And most people just don't want to do it because they think that if they get one more cast in, if they drop boys, it's gonna cost them five casts. Well, if you drop the boys or you drop the way points, you're going to catch more fish because you have really good boat control, good boat controls. The first part of musky fishing and in clear water. Guess what, man? You better. Good boat control. You can't be up grinding the freaking trolling motor prop off on a reef on a dead flat. Calm Canada today. Well, we're we're a pitch castaway. No, Sir. So marking those locations via, whether it be your graph or via. Literal float boys where you drop them down and you mark your edge and you come through and you make your path. You're going to feel way more confident. You're hitting your targets. Right. I'm comfortable now with the waypoint, but for Canada, I'm fishing with buddies up there and doing that thing, man. Drop a couple freaking boys. You see him? Yeah, I see him throw between them. So that that's how we get confident doing that because now we have a target once you have that target, you can back really far off of it and go well. That boy is right there on the weeds.
Jay:
Sure.
Steven:
I'm I'm good.
Steven:
So we're no longer contemplating him as my boat control sucking. We know our boat control is good. Now we can focus on what matters mid cast triggers. What's our mid cast trigger now? Instead of going to my boat control sucks. Booth. We're in. We're out. We're this that. Anyway, I'm on a soapbox. Freaking JJ marks his spots with old gin bottles and twine, fills them full of lightning bugs and twine. Anyway, what do you think? These boys.
Jay:
Yeah, yeah, I used to.
Steven:
Now Jay, just you just know your water and that's the other thing we need know a spot or an area, you know it it becomes less about that. But if you want to break into that man freaking what a boys cost at the shop. Jay $4.00. I mean come on. Give me a break. Totally a valuable thing to have. Like I said, or marking your weed bed. Get there. Focus on mid cast triggers, baits that float up or baits that fall. You're going to catch more muskie Samantha Bee. Female muskie angler in the house y'all. Ye ye. So looking for rubber lures that are a little less painful to throw all day. My husband will throw big baits like the Medusa and the bulldog, you know, mag size I'm assuming. But I have trouble doing that with my size and the amount of force that it takes. What are some lighter options? Love the podcast. J. Smaller options for Bulldogs. What are you thinking? Bulldogs medusas obviously got the down size with some lighter stuff.
Jay:
Mini Medusa. Well, I don't know. Or like what? 3 1/2 oz or something that's half the weight of a regular size.
Steven:
That's real small.
Jay:
To do so, if that's what your husband's throwing. And so cut the size in half. It's going to cast no problem. You don't even need extra heavy gear for it, so there's always light options in the manufacturers that have large, you know, rubber lineups like Musk innovations and chaos tackle even 2 feet off. You know, they've got they've got a smaller model, they don't really have. These names, they have length names. It's a four inch. But that's just the body. It's actually a decent sized soft plastic. Another thing would really to be looking at would be like regular sized swimming dogs or the 8 inch Poseidon from chaos tackle. Those are fairly light baits and swim baits like that have been really good this year. Really good.
Steven:
Yeah.
Steven:
Dynamite. Yeah, I mean or or your standard size, which is so overlooked now, just the standard size bulldog, whatever that is. Well, is that just a bulldog you got Mac dog? Well, the the like the.
Jay:
Standard size is a size smaller than the.
Steven:
Not.
Jay:
Magnum, but yeah.
Steven:
Yeah, their original size, Bulldog, the savage gear alinea's. Not that bad of a throw, you know. I mean, I get it. And I mean, you know, some of the young guys are I could throw Bulldog son. I've thrown Bulldogs for years. And my back hates me now. Like my pounders on my boat, Jay are for show at this point. It's like you guys want to see the biggest bait you ever seen and you whip out a Panther like hell. No, I'm not throwing it. I'm just if they're only on pounders, I'm out. Dude, I'm out.
Jay:
You gotta think of fish and see. I mean, yeah, I mean 6-7 oz baits and up compared to a little 3. Half that's all day, all day with no discomfort.
Steven:
You know, I had to. I'm telling you, I mean you you crack 40 boys. It's down here. My pound believe is my pounder days are long, long gone. I I'll. I'll pull them out now and again. But I mean, I spent. I've spent years, years ripping rubber and you just it's just brutal. And the lot the older I get, the more brutal it gets. The more forgive. I just thought of something, Beaver Bates. Jay.
Jay:
Yeah.
Steven:
I that I'm looking at the wall here and I was saying one thing, but I'm looking at one. That's great jerk bait option that you can get away with a it's somewhat lighter variation by.
Speaker
No.
Jay:
The way, yeah, get a get a mini. Beaver. Put yeah, put like 1/2 ounce lead insert in that screw in. That thing and. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, it's got the appearance of of the soft plastic, yeah.
Steven:
And with that, I'm sorry to shift gears that hard. We can get away with. Samantha is real. Stop with that bait too. You don't have to rip that bait. And I was just literally. I was about to talk about Jays like my lower. Like the torque on my lower back. I there was years back. Man freaking. I'd been throwing rubber baits literally all winter long. In February comes I'm talking December, January I'm into February. I've thrown rubber baits from the time the sun came up to I ate a sandwich and I was on the boat. I think I saw this before. I just heard a snap. In my back and I was like I. And just geeked out. I mean, I hurt myself badly where I couldn't stand if I was standing up, it hurt. If I sit down, I hurt. I was just kind of laying on my side in the fetal position on the couch for three days. Like. Yeah. So yeah, I mean pounders and mega medusas and these monster baits, I mean. They they catch up. That Beaver bait, I think, was probably if it's a big profile situation would probably be your best option, or if, like the ripping of the bats is bad, a high speed real burst, real, real, real stop real, real, real. Stop real, real real stop. You know, being being telling that story about naming myself, fishing, being rubber, part of the reason, like with the crack. And. Made it where it takes far less force, right? You can real stop a crack and you could real stop a Beaver and get a good action out of it. That would be my ticket there. The the young guys that listen, Jay, they're laughing at us now. Well, you know, you old farts. Screw you, kids, get off my lawn.
Steven:
Mm-hmm.
Jay:
Stay off.
Steven:
The grass stay off the grass Stoner. Anthony. Hey, guys. I got one of the smaller head hunters a while ago, but I haven't got to throw it in too much while back, this was the leader that was talked about, but not so much trees. So do you still use it also, any tips or tricks for it? How do you work at situations you like it for? Anything that would be helpful. Thanks AJ. Yeah, the the the headhunter, it is like a hard swim bait. Still throw it. We were gabbing about it a bunch, I guess. But you know and just cyclical.
Steven:
Think that's the Livingston you were?
Steven:
What I like about that bait, it's got a really fat swim to it with a head hunter, just like poseidons. Just like your swimming dogs. Throw it out. Turn the handle. Stop. It's all about the pulse with that bait. Right. The big head. Excuse me. The big Head Hunter is a big bait. I think the 8 inch is kind of like the money size on that. For me, negative neutral fish, it always did really well, especially up north. Low rod angle. Turn the handle pals turn the handle pals and it kind of kicks to the side. I mean, that thing is a great bait. I would say it kind of like in my rotation came out of my bait rotation with the advent of that shallow swimming dog. Right. Because like the the headhunter doesn't sink nor fall. It kind of hangs then and it really I think with the shallow swimming dog, I was like surging and stopping. A little bit more. So I would say it's somewhat interchangeable in that swimming, swim bait kind of deal. I know it's not a rubber swim bait, but it has kind of that undulating kind of twisty thing. So throw it out, turn the handle, give it pauses. You can rip that bait a little bit. It'll kind of kick to the side a little bit. You can jerk, bait it. So definitely. Solid. Something worth having in the tackle box, rich. Rich cuts right to it. Jay. I'm looking here. I can see the whole question. Do you think panoptic should be banned question mark question mark?
Speaker 1
Steven:
Wow band band for what? Why? Why? Why? I hate this **** tournaments.
Steven:
I just I.
Steven:
Just I'm just going. Listen, forget the podcast. This is Steven about. I hate this ****.
Jay:
Technology questions now.
Steven:
No.
Jay:
Too much technology is what I'm.
Steven:
Getting at now. I love technology.
Jay:
No, I'm saying that's what he's saying is just just like is. There's too much technology involved with this.
Steven:
I'm going to. I'm going to now. I'm going to. Cut to it, Doctor Bob. I'm marking on him. Last time I fished with him and he said. Remember what you're saying about panoptix like two years ago. That's what a bunch of guys are saying now. It's not so great to drive around and find fish, but it's really good for pattern dead nuts. And I said, yeah, dude, that's left sit forever. I have no interest nor the time to drive around and snipe fish. I just don't. I mean, in my world, like my clients today freaking, they're a heck of a lot of fun. It was a father and a daughter from Texas, right? The daughter woke up one day and said, I want to catch a muskie. That was the scenario. Well, the the did the monkeys been on my back for a couple of days to catch her a muskie I have pan optics in the back. I got side scan. I got down scan. I got freaking body scan. I got freaking. I got it all. At no point in time did I go the path of least resistance is telling these people to stand still and not cast while I drive around and use pan optics until we get in front of a fish. Not happening. Like in my world, we're fishing. We are casting and we're retrieving baits, right? Nobody wants to stand there holding a bait and going tell me when to cast. Tell me when to cast.
Jay:
MHM.
Steven:
I'm not gonna fish that way. It's ********. Right. I'm not fishing, is not catching. It's not. We don't call it. Let's go catch some fish. We go. Let's go fishing. There's a process. The suck is what makes Muskie fishing awesome. If you guys haven't realized that the suck attitude of this sport is why it's endearing. If you don't enjoy being out in nature, you don't enjoy the camaraderie. You don't enjoy the grind. This is not the fish for you. I can't as a guide, take people out and go hold the rod and get ready to cast. We're gonna drive around for 45 minutes. I'm gonna say throw over there. That's lame. It's boring.
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah.
Steven:
What I mean it like. Could I do it? Yeah. Is it stupid? Yeah. So it's all about application. My grandfather thought fricking flashers were cheating Jay.
Speaker 1
Right.
Steven:
They sure you shouldn't have that **** on your boat. So. It's about application for me. Panoptic S is banal. It's pointing down the side of my boat on a turret. I have it on a mobile turret and I bet you I move it once a week because it just stays here. I'm looking down the side of the boat. I catch more fish because I see him coming in the Figure 8 more so than anything, I use it to dial with my trolling baits more so than anything. To ban it? No, because I mean, if you want to drive around and you want to snipe fish.
Speaker
Yeah.
Steven:
Good luck, man. That's not fishing. It's boring. You might catch you might, you know, make 10 cast and catch 2 fish. It's possible. Most of the fish I've seen that you just kind of roll up on, they're just there. Are kind of justice there. Right. I don't have a lot of luck with suspended fish. They're just like hanging out. You know? Oh, I drove down an edge. And there's one there. And I threw about it. He didn't. Move. He's just kind of Boo. It's it's there. So from my purview. No, I mean you can use. And and here's the thing. The people that ask about banning, and he's richer and richer's defense. He's not saying I think you should ban it. What do you think? Sometimes right out. Right for me.
Jay:
Fine. Can you just ask?
Steven:
You know. Been here, done this. You know, we got about 50 years in the Muskie business between the two of us here. I've heard it all from you know. Shouldn't be able to do this. Shouldn't be able to do that. Don't do this. Don't do that. It's about application. I'm not going to sit around and waste my time because nobody wants to ride around in a guide boat. That's like we make 12 casting a day and the guys just like glued to the screen driving the boat. That's not going to happen in my world. You know, I think the negative side of that technology is probably more more so for schooling fish. You know, if I was a walleye guide, my goodness. You know, I would be staring at that thing all day long because you go, OK, there's a bunch of them. There's a bunch of them. There's a bunch of them, right?
Steven:
Yeah, yeah.
Steven:
So that you can narrows the search where you can spend more time fishing where the fish are. Should it be banned? No. Should it be banned in tournaments? No. I I've said this before, I mean, I know dudes personally that fish the Bassmaster Classic. Right. That's about as big as it. Gets. They can use whatever if you use the word professional, I think the the did it say in field whether you use it or not. But pan optics is not this hot button issue to me that it is to everybody else. I'm just going shut up. You know, it seems like the people that don't have it whine about it seems like the people that have it like. Like it it. Is it a game changer for what I use it for? For seeing deep figure eights? Yeah. Can you catch muscles out it? Yeah. Can you catch more muskies with it? Yeah. You know, is everybody and their brother is everybody and their brother that has it driving around and scooping fish and just like ****** and pillaging? No.
Speaker 1
Page.
Jay:
You know, I think probably a good percentage of the people that that buy it and get it all installed correctly and they're.
Steven:
Don't even know how to use.
Jay:
All feed up on. It don't know how to use it and a lot and the people that do know how to use it. They're like, yeah, it's cool, but I don't want to spend my time staring at that. Darn.
Steven:
Something that'll be all.
Steven:
Thing it's it's not the end of y'all.
Jay:
You know they end up using kind of like how you are and it's just like boy it's. It's great for seeing fish come in that are low, deep, slow, whatever. Just following on a on a Figure 8 or on a, you know, the end of the cast. So that's that's.
Steven:
Slowly.
Jay:
An important factor, and that's really cool.
Steven:
Have have have I caught fish that I never would have caught before without phenomics absolutely guilty as charged.
Speaker
Yep.
Steven:
Deep fish coming in that I didn't know were there. And I do like. Freaking figure eights where the my reels in the water and caught them. Yeah. Does that happen once a week? No. Once a month, no. Right. Is it a heck of a indicator for bait fish movement and their action not. Not to toot their own horn, but Toot Toot in in the book Nexus Muskie fishing I I cover live imaging and sort of most of the ways that I use it in some. Different ways you can use it. I think the most impactful thing for me is seeing the forage movement. Is the forage really active or is it stationary and that dictates my presentation choice. Right way more than my down scan data cause down scans in the past, but live even if things are really moving around, I can fish fast if things are really sluggish I. Can fish slow? Outside of that, I'm not staring at that thing all day long gone. Is there a musky 93 feet out? Throw over there, you know. Not not my game. Maybe some people are. Should it be banned? No. Will it be banned? No. I think the people that like want it to be banned are just going to wave that flag forever and and and. And and that's their right. I'm not here to judge. I think it's got having far more negative effect on schooling fish. I'll tell you that right now. Right. I I one thing I can tell you about Panoptic's I've noticed. Do you want a spider rig? Is Jay?
Jay:
Thanks Sir.
Steven:
For crappie fishing. So spider rigging, especially in the South, is kind of this thing that happened where you would see a boat and in the front of the boat they would have like 10 rods out. Right, no line limits and they call them spider rigs. They have like spider legs, if you will, every direction and they drift the bike through there.
Jay:
MMM.
Steven:
You know, and they're they're surging the boat. And then get dialed down the croppies. Well, now guess what you see. You see one rod, one man and panoptic. They don't need to have all these rods out to get dialed in. They just need one rod and that's green in a school, croppie. Right. So you can wear out schooling fish. What a crop you love doing, getting on trees, getting on, you know, stuff like that. Get on the weed itch.
Steven:
Yeah.
Steven:
Buddy, you get on school with something, you just tear their ***** up one after another after another. I think that's the more detrimental impact of live imaging. I can't imagine like a walleye guy like Jigg. Off the bottom without something like that where you go, we're in. Them boys. Whack. Whack. Whack. Whack. Whack. You know from the Muskie application. If here's the thing to look at. If you want to drive around all day long with your remote control in your hand and your rod in the other, and stare at five or six screens and you whack. A fish because of. It that's not the experience I want to have. I have no judgment of you. But that's not fishing to me, that is like. Like sailor like. You might as well be just like playing Nintendo and driving around. There's one, and we throw at him. We. Don't get him. I want to cast. I want to enjoy that experience and and the less screen time I have on the boat, the better, admittedly, so I'm looking at my paint optics over my shoulder all the time for Figure 8 fish, but I'm not going to sit here and drive around that.
Steven:
You go. There's a suspended.
Steven:
Fish 65 feet out, eight feet down. Not. Not the experience I want to have anyway. OK. What's your thoughts, Jay, do you think they should? They should just ban muskie fishing altogether.
Jay:
No, I mean. There's groups all over the place, you know. I mean, there's, isn't there a group in Minnesota that just wants to? They they just want to ban muskies in general because they're eating all the walleyes or they're eating all the Pike or they're eating all the panfish and they're killing the ecosystem and it's like, I don't know, save your. You know.
Steven:
Breath if. If people to have something to ***** about, would they like the people that are mad about this stuff are the kind of people that live in a homeowners association and come over, measure your grass. Leave me alone, you know. Umm, don't boy don't tread on me. Stay there. Yes, Sir. I just had me a swiggle at jungle juice jam ready to rock, Dylan. Sorry, I wasn't trying to get off of again. Let me let me circle back as they say now circling back. I'm not passing judgment. You're entitled to your opinion. That's my opinion. That's what I think. I don't give a **** what you do. If you want to go and freaking throw hand grenades at these things on your leg. More power to you. You know what I'm saying? As long as you're not doing it on my.
Steven:
Like I don't give a rats.
Speaker
Yes.
Steven:
You know? Go go freaking fish with hand grenades. Dylan. Hey, guys. Avid listener to the pot and had a question regarding weather conditions. So far this year I fished northern Minnesota, primarily lake Vermillion. Since the season up, we haven't had a solid stretch of stable weather. Excuse me from over till now. Rain storms, it feels like. Every other day and the air temperature fluctuates quite quite a bit. Sounds like kind of like what you're dealing with. Lows in the 40s at night and can be anywhere from 60 to high seventies on any given day. One day it'll be blowing twenty wins out of One Direction. The next day calm, and then it switches back. Just wondering how these unstable weather conditions affect the fish and how we can where it can dial in and pattern fish effectively from Thursday night till Sunday afternoon now.
Jay:
The big time.
Steven:
My first question is, are you fishing the entire time? If you don't fish from Thursday till Sunday afternoon straight, Jay no breaks, right, Jay? No sleep, no food.
Jay:
Yeah.
Steven:
No water. 100% so. OK, weekend warrior. Jay, we I want to see that. Can you do like an 80 hour Muskie marathon, Jay just you one camera and you're just kind of falling apart like vlog style like hour 17, really gripping. It would be just be sad.
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
And just be you out there growing a little stubble live on the ground, just you string the whole thing. Just stream it. Just go crying most of the time.
Jay:
Just dodging cartoons.
Steven:
Just fricking here. There I was in conton.
Jay:
Stay off my weed bed.
Steven:
Stay off my weeds, kids.
Jay:
All my fury on.
Steven:
The water fury on the water, the JSE story, one man's battle against Sad. So here's the deal. Muskies in staging is an equation of stability. It simply is, right? So when you have mixed up conditions, guess what we have, Jay. Mixed up muskies. You would be. You will have shallow fish. You will have deep fish. You will have suspended fish. You'll have everything. They're good to spread out. Stability. In it's not even generally just a truism. Stability. We'll bring congregation to a body of water, right?
Jay:
Yeah, I think you're on to something here.
Steven:
Condition.
Steven:
Yeah. Yeah, so.
Steven:
You know whether. Don't add it. Oh well, the wind didn't. The wind shifted this and the baits over here. And the the things are there and things are there. It's kind of like a free for all. Right. Muskies have gone. I need to eat and this is what is in my proximity and it is good. So you might have fish on the bottom again, suspended, some buried in the weeds. So what it is through the statistical probability. You have a real hodgepodge of crap. The game you gotta play is. What is the highest percentage game I'm comfortable with? Right. When things are highly unstable. What I am looking for? Is small areas that are holding bait, fish that are possibly out of the wind. But like if dude saying it's shifting, it's this way it's E it's W it's all over the place, right? That might even be on the table. If it is just tremendously a mess. What I will look at is early morning, shallow bite and an evening shallow bite. We all know that that's bare bone basics, right? Once the sun peaks above the horizon, right or until it's just getting to the damn part of the day and severe mix ups. If I have. To catch a fish, I'm going to troll and I'm going to jig. You always have muskies on the bottom. I can promise you that in everybody what there is from the South to freaking lock soul, there's always a musky on the bottom. So if it is just like and I've done it, man, where I'll I'll walk out and I've got eager clients, Jay, and we'll look at. Each other. Oh. Today looks great and I'm going to, but you don't know what happened yesterday and what happened today and now it's ****. You know, what am I going to do? I can always get a bite jigging always if you are jigging an outside edge, you're jigging the first break. And if you put in from early morning until sunset, I think it's the highest percentage thing you can do as vertical jig. There will be a fish somewhere. That will respond positively to a vertical Jack, right? Not every day. But it's it's it's. I would say it's the highest yield. Per hour. Right of anything you could do when we're talking mixed up horrible, awful conditions. Jay, it is not the funnest thing you can do either, right? So if you have to catch a fish, you're super down and you just want a net one when things are a washing machine and you just can't make hide nor hair of a pattern getting on the first major break and jigging is going to be the option. So my game plan for super washing machine, super weird weather changes focus, shallow early focus, shallow in the evening, the rest of the day needs to be jigging if you can run a couple lines troll. Right. But a lot of the trolling that people are doing in general is more so for suspended fish. Right. So if if if you're uncertain based on Bay if you if you do a scan you do your 3 point check, you know shallow men deep for your bait fish. And especially like dude, you're saying the weekend right and you're fishing Vermillion he just said Vermillion right. He did it's not spot burn that's freaking.
Jay:
It's true.
Steven:
Giant like wherever you're launching on Vermillion, you better get down your 3 point check. What is the three-point check for those don't. No, you're going to find an area where you check for baked, yellow, mid and deep every single time you go there and you're going to do your research in hallmark until you find consistent areas. I talk about in the book. Again something I do every single day. It tells me so much. OK, is baked, shallow mid or deep. It gives you a starting point. Right. Unless I've got mid depth bait, unless I've got suspended, you know, ciscos or suspended perch or whatever the forage base is. You're looking at a Wallace. I'm not gonna go out here and try to coax a musky out of 20 feet to come off the bottom and hit my head lock that's running 8. I'm not really interested in making him move 12 feet. Right, angling the the decision to be made between casting, trolling and jigging is a matter of efficiency. What is the most efficient methodology to get as close to a muscular humanly possible? Right. When things are completely scattered. Right. You're going to have to just go well. The majority of them are on the bottom. I don't want to admit it, and it sucks, but it's true. Right. If you if you follow the tenants of structure fishing, where do muskies retreat to when things are not prime, they retreat to the first break or the main basin. That is what they do, whether you believe it or not. So you just have to commit to it and go well, you know what? It might be fun. Everybody else is throwing Bucktails at the weed beds, but if everybody else isn't catching fish or you know Lonnie Thompson caught a 32 inch or up for four days. Yeah, that's not efficiency.
Steven:
You know you.
Steven:
See these tournaments? Jake cracks me up, right? 40 boats went out 40 boats in this tournament and four fish were caught, so 80 people. At, you know, 16 hours. Right. So 8 what's what's 88?
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah.
Steven:
My phones hemmed up here.
Jay:
Yeah, that happens.
Steven:
It's 16 * 8. Yeah, you know. So you know, you're sitting here looking at this thing. Right? And and you're looking at production.
Jay:
Yeah, it honestly does.
Steven:
And so let's see ADT.
Jay:
Or a yeah. Or 120 volts and the statement went out and 16 were both. The day.
Steven:
OK, so what's what's what do you say 120 boats times 8?
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
Right, 120 bucks times. Two people in a boat which is 10 or 40 * 8 is 1920. Freaking hours of angling. Say it with me 1920 freaking hours. Of doing the same ****. This is why I a soapbox. Are you ready? This is why I rub people so freaking wrong in this game so often. You're telling me that's OK. It's a fish. It's not in the woods. It didn't crawl out of the lake. It is there out of a body of water in on any given day. I am totally of the belief that somewhere in five to 10% of Muskies are active per given day. Right. And you're saying 1920 hours of angling? For that kind of yield that is just. Mind boggling awful. We just did us. It just simply is, it just doesn't compute in my brain. Where I'm gone, OK? That's ridiculous and I think a lot of people lose sight of that of like, I think the grind, like the grind of muskie fishing. Excuses that right.
Jay:
The fish of 10,000 cats.
Steven:
I haven't had a guide dude, the last guide trip I had that lasted more than six hours. I can't remember. Sorry if you're ever gonna come fishing with me.
Speaker
Yeah.
Steven:
You got to know what they're doing, where they're at and what the most effective methodology is. You've got to throw away what you want to do. What I want to do does not matter. If you bought a cracking yesterday and you're super freaking excited about it. And the pattern doesn't call for a crack and guess what? You're going to catch Diddley, ****? Right. You're just about to tighten. I'm talking about my bait, so I can really talk some **** here. You just bought a tighten. I've heard about the Titan for so long, and Steve says it's great if you misapply that tool. Guess what? You're going to get. Out of it? Nothing.
Steven:
Not ****.
Steven:
Right. Yeah, the old adage don't bring a knife to a gunfight.
Speaker
Steven:
Think about angling in that way. What is the most effective tool? What is the most effective methodology? A question I get all the time and I get it everybody's a. Different experience level. You know, do you like trolling? Or do you like to troll? Or do you troll? I like catching fish. I don't care how we do it, as long as it's effective right now, backing up to to note my own hypocrisy from just a few moments ago. I'm not going to go drive around and sharp shoot all the freaking time, right? Talk of the panoptic. Because it can be done, but for me. Trawling, casting and jigging is enough. Where? If I can't catch them, catch them casting, trolling and jigging. But what is the vast majority of angling time is spent casting. The vast majority. Right.
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
But if the yield is, you know, I go out for three days and you put let's say you.
Steven:
A real real.
Steven:
Enumerated variation of that would be the typical anger goes out. He puts in six hours for three days, right. He's got 18 hours in here and he's got. No followers or no strikes. It's not because there was not a fish that was willing to eat. It was because his methodology did not align with what the fish were doing. I've been saying that for years in a different way, and it ruffles feathers, but it just is simply a truism, because at a certain point, especially in summer months in the early fall, there's always a constituency of Muskies that are active. They may not align with what you want to do. They might not align with what what you want to throw. Everybody and their brother wants to throw top water, me included. I've said it before, why don't we not talk about Bucktails all the time? In the show. Because everybody else talks about breaking Bucktails, that's all they do. Well, there's a bunch of guys and the the majority of anglers you're against, right? Let me put this way. Here's some real talk, Jay. Straight talk, if you will. You pull up. To a boat ramp, there's a bunch of musky boats launching. You can pretty much discredit 90% of them. If conditions are not bucktail worthy. We're off the bat. They're getting nowhere near the fish. Your turnip results screen that everything screamed that it's that old trope of, you know. Yes, a a double 10 or a 88 has its time in place. But if the Muskies are not where you want them to be, that is a wholly and effective tool. Bringing a gun to a knife fight, bringing a knife to a gun fight.
Jay:
Yeah.
Steven:
Right. That's like you bringing your. That's like you bringing your belt Sander to a roofing job. Why? Right. I got. Hey, boss, I got my belt Sander. We're putting a roof on Vincente. You need a nail gun.
Jay:
We don't need that today. We're not going to.
Steven:
We don't need that. That tool is not applicable today because we're not doing that job. If we're sanding freaking wood blanks, we need a belt Sander.
Jay:
Use. Today.
Steven:
Leave it in the toolbox, allow your tackle box. That's what I'm saying. So. You know, if you're struggling. I'll say this, this overarching that well, I'm. I'm past the dude's question and like Minnesota, it's its own animal dude. And and and circling back to him. You know, just just open up yourself to all the methodologies. If it's not working, make a change. And I mean that to everybody. If it's not working, make a change. Why? Why the stubbornness? Well, I gotta follow three days ago. OK, that cool bro.
Jay:
Well.
Jay:
Some people, I think a lot of people, you know, myself included. At times it's just like you don't know when to rule out that fish aren't active shallow. And there comes a point in time where this is exactly what you're getting at. It's just like it's. Time to make a.
Steven:
Change which is. OK.
Jay:
It's like, OK, the majors coming up in an hour, though, you know the majors at, you know 12:30 in the afternoon, OK.
Steven:
That and. I'm not trying to talk about the book a bunch tonight, but it it's like it's kind. Of like the. Me putting pen to paper of like screw it, right? And I mentioned the three-point check. See if you told me. We went out to neighbor Steve's lake, right? Just I'm mentioning this to Jay, but just imagine your typical Northwoods like. And we go to that prime area. That we love to catch Muskies offer.
Jay:
MHM.
Steven:
And we did the three-point check on the way out there. And all the bait was deep. Would you throw? Blades. Think about that it makes. Right, right. That what you've got to do is you've got to. And this is kind of kind of this. Hippie dip. Stop telling the fish what to do and start listening to what the environment's telling you. Right. Once again, you bought a cracking yesterday and you're excited to use it and it doesn't score. Or you bought a new Bucktown? That's it's not the Bay. It's the application. I don't think there's. I would say, of all the musky baits made right now, I would say 90% of them are great baits. There's a couple duds or some Chinese. Get them some dog sheet out there. Right, but 90% have some. Locate. Sure, it's all about the proper application of the tool. That's why I bring it back to you know, I think one of the best analogies or the best analogies for muskie fishing is golf. When we come to like. The Figure 8, right? And and they always say, you know, you know, drive for hose put for doe. Right. I don't know what that means, but drive for hose put for doe where anybody can hit a long ball. But you got to be really good putter and I use that on the **** about figure eights like there's some art to figure eight. Well.
Jay:
Right.
Steven:
If you're a golfer, you go. You don't go up to the freaking tee and grab a wedge off the tee on like a par 5. Right. You don't. Or if your guitar part don't bring your telecaster to a freaking Pantera gig. Right. Hey, it's a Pantera cover band. Should I bring my Telecaster? No. It's so obvious, right? Don't worry. Your don't bring whatever you know. If you're not a guitar player or golfer, you know, don't bring your basketball to football.
Jay:
Don't wear a Metallica T-shirt to church.
Steven:
Don't wear a Metallica T-shirt. Can that just be the new name? Of the podcast. Don't wear Metallica. Get James. Got that demon in him. He's got that inner Sandman. Don't wear a metallic and T-shirt to church. Ohh man, I love it. Yeah, I mean, it's just misapplication. So how do we get to that point? It's it's checking back.
Speaker
Yeah.
Steven:
ah
Steven:
If you must, if you absolutely have to have a beating through your head. Because your commandment. And you go bait Fisher deep on spot like my prime spot or spot area, or leading into a spot. I hate the word spot, but let's just go with it. Check your other prime spots and go.
Steven:
All the bait fish are deep outside. All three of my prime areas.
Steven:
It's it's a flashing sign that says, well, fish deep.
Jay:
The toys you a lot? Yeah, absolutely.
Steven:
Hey, fish. Deep today, *******.
Steven:
Well, I'm gonna put on my top water. And nothing's gonna happen or or you. Maybe we'll get one hit. Maybe we'll get armor here, you know?
Steven:
Or it you know you bought the T-shirt off of Amazon of one just blasting a walleye and you got the muskies are crazy. They're not, they're lazy. Don't argue with everything that you see. Don't let hope. Overcome reason. Right it should. Just be like the folks last podcast. The only it's only when we needed Jay. Don't make your hope overcome reason.
Steven:
Figure it out yourself.
Jay:
Just to write that down. Hold on.
Steven:
So yes, I want the freaking bone crushing top rater strike as we all do. But in general, it's not going to happen. So you've got to dial in on what is reality. Not what you're trying to manifest. Right, blades. I've heard they're kicking on blades. If I'm a weekend or date, I'm coming in, like silencing going all right. What's going on right now? What's happening at this very moment? Things are screwed up. And that's it, you know. Outside of like. I don't want to say severe cold fronts, dude. If you try hard enough, you can catch my skin and cold. Front. Sorry. Oh yeah. Done it, been there. Jays watched it a billion times, right? You'll find one. And it's not that there's just one in the whole lake. It's just a microcosm. Right. So it is the culmination of paying attention to bait fish, paying attention to small changes and saturation casting in the reason you make that decision is based on, like, really strong cues. You know that tell you structure what it is. You know there's no like, I love this because I'm just cutting through the ship because I'm tired. I I'm pretty successful in the water. I do not have musky divining rods. Jay. Right. Remember those old in the in the back in the day they grabbed their divining rod and some crazy person will walk around and say there's water over here. Yeah, I'm talking about. Yeah, they're in a trance or whatever they're possessed. Because they wore the Metallica shirt to school or church, probably the reason, right? That's it. The medal was the devil. Everybody's what I'm getting at. Anyway, I don't have some musky divining rod that says Muskies are over here, and I know. I'm taking. Not even contact clues. I'm looking at what is happening. I'm making analyzation what is happening and going what baits run closer to what's happening now? There's my secret, everybody. What are my electronics telling me? Where is the majority of bait fish, and what baits do I have that get where they are slightly above? Not by mine.
Jay:
Here it is. Nope Nope.
Steven:
Wow, you too can have a podcast with a host as lame as Jay. Jason. But that I'm teasing you. I love Jay, but that would really cut to the core of it for me of like, it's not it's not rocket genius ****. It just isn't. It's not like.
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
You know, like I said, the divining rods are this, that another it, it is like minute by minute. But ohh that's a freaking great song minute by minute. If you don't like Mike went down you can get off my podcast.
Jay:
Steven:
Is that tough to swallow? Do you like Michael McDonald? No. No, I don't.
Jay:
Not not a big fan.
Steven:
Sorry, it's a long.
Jay:
Something.
Steven:
When it's literally taking the information given to you and applying baits.
Speaker 1
Yeah, late.
Steven:
I'll shut up, man. That's I'm too tangential. I am just like off the rails on the muskie gravy train. Fish. What the lake tells you, what do you say to you?
Jay:
That's it. That's it. You know, you said earlier, it's just like, where's the majority of debate? Ohh. OK. Yeah. I'm seeing a lot right here. OK, what do I have that runs?
Steven:
Hard Raptor.
Jay:
Just a problem.
Jay:
That's that's right. That's right.
Jay:
The thing is that game plan. Let's let's try. That game plan for a couple.
Steven:
Hours. I'll tell you the magic trick. Everybody, you're prepared. You ready for this, Jay? All you have to do. Spend a little time paying attention to all the information you have and stop casting for like 12 minutes.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Steven:
You know what I'm saying? Like, it doesn't always work. Is it every day? Is it like, perfect? No.
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Steven:
But if you go ohh crap.
Speaker 1
Well, like I've always.
Jay:
Said, you know, it's like if you fish the same lake 2-3 days in a row, you're going to learn a lot by spending that 12 minutes and exploring. When you get out there approximately the same time every day. Let's say for example.
Steven:
Or not it it's, but it's an ebb and flow. It always is. And I didn't cover all the questions this week. I'm just ranting. I'm sorry, but.
Steven:
Well.
Steven:
The information is there. Right. The information, Sir. The dad is there. Right. I'm not seeing any bait move. Find it. Stop casting. Save yourself so much time by stop being hard headed. You can go with the flow of things if you're not seeing baked fish, you're not in most circumstances, guess what? You're not going to catch Muskies. Right. If you can't find them anywhere, guess what? They're buried up super shallow in the ****. Get in there. It's not, it's, it's. The dogma of muskie fishing drives me nuts of. There's like this modicum of. Like it's supposed to be admirable to just grind your brains out for one bite for four days.
Speaker 1
Yeah, there you go.
Steven:
That's four days the hunt was on. It was day three for the beast.
Steven:
Please. Right, bill.
Steven:
No, stupid. You know, I would be unemployed. You can't look at it that way. Where? That's acceptable. What's it? I'm not saying. You have to go out and catch fish or day. I don't catch a fish every time I launch the boat. Doesn't happen. **** happens most days I do. And the only thing I'm doing differently is like I'm just going, what's reality versus what I want to happen. My clients, if I asked every client like you want fish, tall Potter, everyone go. Oh, hell yeah, everyone every. It could be snowing. Yeah, hell yeah.
Jay:
Right, right, right.
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
Stop putting like inflicting your will on the muskies. Right. You got a new bait. You want to use it? The Muskies don't care. You want to fish fast, but they want it slow. Muskies don't care. What is it going to take to close the distance? What's it going to take to close the gap is what matters. What methodology you choose to use is the matter of efficiency, trolling, casting, jigging. That's it. Jaybird.
Jay:
Tonight's theme? Don't let hope come reason.
Steven:
Minute.
Jay:
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