Musky 360 Podcast Episode 269: Win Steven's Stash & Massive Q&A
Transcript
Steven:
All right, folks, welcome to the Muske 360 podcast. Jaybird it seems. Like we need to stop franchising.
Speaker
Oh.
Jaybird:
I'm shell shocked.
Speaker
Hello Sir.
Jaybird:
I'm wow is all I can. That was incredible.
Steven:
Sir. Hello, Sir. This is David, David.
Jaybird:
Guy sounds nothing like me.
Steven:
It's. Now you know it is what it is. With some of the stuff we deal with on websites and fun stuff with the crap, and my phone has just been that nonstop that you know, you just got to farm it out the, you know, you got the Canada version. You got, like, the Northwoods report, you know. Which is that we got to keep it there anyway. Yeah man, my e-mail has been blown up. Jay blown up Q&A questions trying to get Steve Staish. So what?
Speaker
Mm.
Steven:
Going to. We'll get through some of. We're not going to get through all of. I can promise you that.
Steven:
OK.
Steven:
There is no way. So if you do not get your question responded to, we will probably I'll try to. Depends on what's going on weather wise. We might sneak it extra. Answers episode. Maybe me and Jay will grab an extra 30 minutes here there this week and throw out a extra answers episode. You want to do that, Jay? We'll get him in it or something. We should just do that.
Speaker
Yeah, sure.
Steven:
To try to get through some of these but keep sending in, we're going to do Steve Stash next week. Again, we got a clear out, we got a clear out these baits Jay. We get a clear amount and so we'll we'll come up with a winner some somehow at the end here. Anyway, other than that, we got that Magnus Dlj. It's coming down Pike.
Jaybird:
We've got the magnet steam coming. It is.
Steven:
It's coming to hold your. There anything going on this week before we dive right in?
Jaybird:
Well, couple. We've got the 2025 new Muskie gear video coming out tomorrow, Tuesday afternoon.
Speaker
Select. Sara.
Jaybird:
Check it. And Jim, Jim Belaya, they call him is putting together right now as we speak. A huge clothing sale for this weekend.
Steven:
Wow. And that? Yeah.
Jaybird:
That's going to start Thursday. Wednesday. Night. Look for that on our website, you know.
Steven:
Some of the dopest gear.
Jaybird:
You'll get an e-mail if you normally receive our weekly emails with sales and specials.
Speaker 1
Get that drip.
Jaybird:
Yeah, we're looking at 50% off a lot of clothing. He's getting everything together right now. Counting it and. Racking it up and getting ready for the big sales.
Steven:
Learn Java you.
Speaker
Stuff.
Steven:
Yeah, if you want swag and drip. The kids say. AJ.
Jaybird:
Well, it's not just clothing, actually, it's merchandise too. Some other stuff on there so.
Steven:
At keys.
Jaybird:
Yes.
Steven:
Sir.
Steven:
Get your musky chat skies and your swag and your drip right away.
Speaker 1
Your voice right over here.
Jaybird:
Yes.
Steven:
You could make that. That be you can buy like oversized shirts and hoodies and, like, make yourself a little necklace. Have like a magnet. Any like moving on, we got, we got tons. Like a freaking coal mine of. First one up out-of-the-box, Frank. Hey, guys. You talk about how important boat control is. I'm finding that out more. I'm finding it out more the more I'm. Could you just give a quick rundown on angle of? Taking wind and current consideration. Anyway, he says, hadn't Steve mustache.
Jaybird:
Mm.
Steven:
I don't have a moustache, Jay. Have AI have. You. The whole. I got the I don't know. Beard got a beard. Weird. Anyway, so fortunately, soon sooner than later I'll have the second book edited and done. But I actually did a big thing on boat controlling it and in in, in putting fingers to keyboards pins to papers. I. Really had to dissect that. So I'll give you kind of the Cliff notes of that. We're covering here. When it comes to wind, you know you have to make a decision. It helping or hurting your angle of. It's not go into the wind. Let the let the wind be at the the back of your boat or your transom, is it? Fast enough? That midway through the cast, it's going to change your retrieving angle and cause your bait to come up. Say you're throwing Bucktails or a crankbait is the wind. So you you've got to look at what force your your, your, your approach and your speed. Making and how that's going to influence how your baits are running, whether running in the water column. You have to pick. Is this going to help or? Do I need to fight the wind or can I play the? Is the wind, you know, if if you're burning baits and just hucking and chucking at lightspeed into light drift behind you, that's nothing. It if it's, if you need to go low and slow, you're going to have to fight. The wind we can cast forward into the wind, where it's not influencing your bait. The boat boat control is bait control. Right. Yeah, that's. And and and you want to freaking talk about them hammering her down on the on the on the next book there, which we have all the stuff I have going on. Will get her done in one of these days, but. Good boat control is good bait control. Not only are you presenting a bait with your rod and reel, you're presenting with your boat. More so than you even realize. And I think what kills people more so than anything is they can't stop using the reeling hand, right? So they have no control of the reeling hand, followed by they can't stay off the freaking pedal, right? So. If we have those two deficiencies, we need to consider it the best way to like take that out of the equation. Let's say we take something that's just Super Classic. Can't go wrong with. Probably everybody in Muskie fishing has owned one or at one time or has one would be, let's say, A6 inch, Softail, Phantom, Jay, right? Take that to a pool. Throw it, and if it doesn't look like it does in the pool, your boat control sucks. Ah, because now that we're stationary, the only influence on the presentation.
Speaker
No.
Steven:
Is the rod in the reel? But I've seen guys retrieving glide baits and they go they got it walking the dog a little bit and then it starts not going the way they want because they're the angle of their line is changing the boats advancing too fast? Now the bait won't walk, right.
Jaybird:
Absolutely, totally understand.
Speaker
So.
Steven:
So when you're casting and you're retrieving in a stationary and I just did this, I'm going to tell. Something funny?
Speaker
Thank.
Steven:
You find the right hotel at the right time of day to let you go in there with the rod. OK, I had to film. I had to film some underwater magnets for James iced up.
Jaybird:
Yeah, that's true.
Steven:
Jay got some wonderful footage of that bad boy. This summer and we needed some additional stuff because I didn't have all the colors, and heck, we still didn't. And I just go. I'm like, can I the guys like, yeah, I do. Whatever. Do whatever. I don't care.
Speaker
I.
Steven:
Whatever you know. I'm going to murder. Do whatever the pools over there. I. But I don't have a pool. Got a hot tub, but you know. You don't want to bait no baits in the hot tub.
Jaybird:
No, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1
You know, crack it up.
Jaybird:
Too much turbulence.
Steven:
So cracky baits in the hot tub, um, but working baits in a pool. And you know and. And a poor on a pond. Whatever. If you're stationary, you can focus solely on that. And then you look. It from that perspective. Your boat. Will affect that blah blah blah blah blah. Moving on, that's that's the freaking one.
Jaybird:
****.
Steven:
You know, break into your neighbors backyard. You don't do.
Speaker
You.
Steven:
That all right, Zach? If you're gonna choose between a swimming dog and a side, and which would it be and why, it would be a Magnus. To be honest with you, I'll I'll say it flat out. We got a ton to go through. So Zach. Whatever this is, this is just opinion based. I have not done exception well with Poseidon. That's a very that beta of the package is very in my opinion. Like stiff rubber, right? So it's got some durability because it's. River, but it takes a lot of speed and energy to get that bait up and going before it really has a pronounced action where the swimming dogs a little more supple and it's got a little more little more wag to it again.
Steven:
Mm.
Steven:
Don't pick the timing of these, but like I said, check out the Magnus. See that it sounds like a bad timing act question. Like a bad pitch or something but. Looking at both of those baits, it's just the two dominant swimbaits and muskie. Fishing and looking at those I went and it's just like every bait I've come up with. I just.
Steven:
Hmm.
Steven:
If I. A model if I've got to do a bunch of stuff, I've got to take the bait and massage it and get it supple so it looks. Now let's get it right. And so like I went for Mac like screw up, but on Magnus the tail of the Magnus actual paddle, tail of the Magnus is bigger than any other musky paddle tail. The actual round paddle tail, right? Which means if you're working at high speed, it's got a ton of. And if you're working at slow speed, it's catching more water and it's got more swings. Right and. I look for in a swim. Forget magnets for a second. What do I look for in a swim? Because there's a bunch of European joking European. There's a bunch. There's a bunch of. Euro billion swim baits that I think are are. Uh. More, more lively. More life. So a lot of my the tip of the hat with what I've been doing is more towards that but.
Jaybird:
Yeah. And a lot of those. Very small though.
Steven:
Small. Well, they they make. There's there's biggies too. They make obviously the whole range over. You're going to find anything from 4 inches up to about 18 inches, but. More so, I'm looking for belly row and head side aside, and that's kinda what I ended up with was like what I have today. Because some baits will have a belly roll where the whole bait just kind of rolls like like you know up to side to side. The whole bait is doing one thing where what I wanted was three things, and so if you take a A Poseidon, you throw it out and. Really go fast. It's got a heck of a tail swag, right? So it's got more tail action, but the swimming dog has more role and some of the good euro baits like super hard to get or they don't make them anymore. Had this head thing where the head would go left and right while it's rolling and sometimes you'll get. Wander where it'll go a foot to the left or a foot to the right at times. And so that's what my goal. And So what I look for in a swim bait at the end of the day is. Does it roll because the whole body roll? The tail. Does it have the thumb and vibration? Does the head do anything?
Speaker
Yeah.
Steven:
Because typically when it comes to hard baits, I don't care what it is. Bulldog a Medusa, a swimming dog, Poseidon. Cracking. All these baits they tend to headshot that stuff, right?
Jaybird:
Then on these soft baits, you mean? Yeah.
Steven:
The more head action you have, right? Not belly roll, the more action you have on that very front section, the more strikes you get. So that's what I was going for.
Steven:
Mm.
Steven:
If you got to pick me, you got to put me between the two and I got to pick between Pesadene and a swimming dog. Picking the OR, I'm picking the swimming dog. That would be my take of the two. But you know, obviously my my allegiances are at Magnus now because it kind of fit some of the deficiencies I saw in just all the swim baits. And not to pound that that freaking thing. Sorry. The the thing I would say is this. Is I don't like the hook fouling of of swim bait style baits like you cast it out and you get hooked, fouled. And that's one thing I think that happens a lot, but talking to somebody on the boat, they're asking about swimming like, oh, get hooked out every. Different. I get hooked out every time. When you make a cast with swimming dog. A really good, good way to eliminate that is make sure you're feathering the spool the entire cast. Right. So if you imagine when that bait goes. You know you have. This speed, inertia you have this 4 momentum, right? The hooks are laid back, right? And this is with any bike. We cast over our. If you visualize this, we're making the cast, and the bait is pointed at the water. Right. At a certain point in the lope, things kind of tend to turn around. Right. And so if you feather that the entire time, there's not any slack where it can kind of grab itself. More of a line drive cast than this loping cast. You don't want any. You don't want significant slack or or or play in your line on the cast with swimbaits because like I said. Hang the bait over your shoulder. It's pointed at the water and you're retrieving it back at yourself. There's a flip over point with these baits and so a lot of times when you're designing a bait you have to look at how is that bait going to grab and that's why guys will hook foul Bay. Like I don't. That could be a tube. It could be a. Bait. It could be a bulldog. If you're getting hook fouls on your leader. Like I said, the front hook is grabbing your leader. You need to feather that spool and keep tension so there's not enough play in that line for that thing to kind of grab anything when it flips over.
Jaybird:
And basically try to slow down gradually, slow down at the very very end of the cast, right when it's hitting the water. As a as a as opposed to an appropriate, an abrupt change of speed.
Steven:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Feather. Yeah.
Jaybird:
Of times that's, that's where. Changeling or the you know the you know, what do you call the bulldog thing? You know where dog bowl?
Steven:
It's it's really at the dog ball. Yeah, it. Yeah, it's at the top. Like you make a cast. And really kind of start feathering it when it's the apex like the top of the cast?
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
Steven:
And then feather it all the way down, which happens really fast, we go. Right. And that you should be slowing it down when it hits the top of the cast or just launch it like AT shirt cannon with reckless, abandoned and you're just retrieving this dog. All the way. God move. We're never going to get through these.
Speaker 1
I'm too slow. Eat, love the.
Speaker
See.
Steven:
Podcast My voice and I really miss an episode question for Steve Stash. When you're running through your pre fishing. With and are finding the bait. Do you have a usual milk run order that you you go through, or does it change? Time of year, blah blah blah. Example, are you checking depth verse structure, rocks or weeds to sand this and staying on 5th? OK so.
Speaker
Blah blah.
Steven:
I. We've talked about and I've talked about in the first book, next level Muskie fishing. A thing that I do is like a three-point bait check, right? And it allows me to quickly ascertain or bait fish which are easier to find the muskies or bait fish mid shallard deep deep. What I'm looking for are structural elements that hold bait fish throughout the year in some capacity right now to kind of clarify that I'm not looking at bait fish to spend. Over. Their weeds might be present. But when the weeds are eliminated, this is still a viable location for bait fish to be to be congregate. So it's a structural thing, not a cover thing. So if it is a structural thing. Generally that allows me to kind of do that milk run. Year round, right? So if you base your bait checks or your 3 point check if you base it on structure. Pure structure. That's productive. That's way more reliable throughout the entire. Of the year, right? If you're checking in on weed edges, and let's say you get on just a RIP and weed bite and you got to know our muskies mid shell and deep because we, let's say we have weeds present from zero feet out to the the the mid teens, right?
Speaker
OK.
Steven:
You can use that same thing to go OK or is there bait present, mid shell or deep but once the weeds die off that that might be done for? Right. That's not a permanent thing because you anytime you're dialed in on something, 5-10 minutes to to to check things, OK? Is it the same as yesterday is the same as last weekend, is it? Know is it the same as this morning? So what I'm doing is I'm primarily relying on. Structural things to remove. The seasonality of it. So if I'm going on points or a hump or a rock bar. You know I. My deep things are a hump. Well, you know, fish will usually gravitate to. To that throughout the course of the year, the general year, you know there's not. It's not in. Could be said Muskies make a lot of movements throughout the course of the year, but if we go from. Post spawn to to late fall it's it's not that dramatic. It can be, but in general it's it'll kind of cleans up if you have the availability. If there's, if you can find 3 pure structural elements that show you bait fish with regularity. Those are way better bellwethers than anything that involves cover. That would be the ticket there. But if you if you can't find it, you can't find it. Go with something you you can either go OK reliably and and for the uninitiated on that we're not going. We want to find bait. You're not. The goal is not to find bait it deep, mid and shallow. 3. The goal is to go where's the congregation as fast as possible so we can get to fishing. It's to answer a question. Right. And and and to harken back to the book and hearken back to to early earlier episodes before we kind of said we're going to cover some. The stuff we've covered before. That that is is just to expedite the entire process. And so I'm looking to see. Let's say I go. Let's say on we go we got a week and we got a Saturday and a Sunday. We got on Saturday and we do our check and there's nothing, nothing on our deep location that continue has bait and there's there's some stuff on our mid and there's. Definitely stuff towards the shallot. OK. We go out, we focus our attention on the shows. We come back out Sunday. And we do that check again. Go. Wow. There's a ton of bait deep and there wasn't yesterday and then we got that mid thing. A little bit big. Check our shallow. Well, there's no bait here. I might. Before I even go cast their shows where we caught a fish last night. If the bait has shifted and there's a dominant bait shift, I've just saved myself a couple hours of checking. The shell is where I went. Know what something happened? Happened. There's been a change in the bait. I'm betting you the Muskies have followed suit and we're going to hit that that deep in that mid depth area. Right. So that will help you save. It's a matter of efficiency now to get to that. You're not just going to pick three random things and check them. You've got to check this stuff. Over the course, a duration of time. Which it could be your one week trip to Canada or one week trip to Wisconsin. Check that there's three areas you. Them. Then you check those three areas and you go OK this week. What? Looks like or over a duration of time, yeah.
Jaybird:
Yeah, yeah.
Steven:
So it it like it's not a, it's not a fix all immediate thing, but it will it. It's a long term planning, a long term patterning tool all right, checking this Fred.
Jaybird:
That's important.
Steven:
Mm.
Steven:
What are your thoughts on joining crankbaits for trolling? After reviewing my horde of baits, I noticed a lack of joining ones. And with Muskie shares coming up, I was thinking I should have a better selection of baits in the five to seven inch. For summer, things have been listed podcast for a while and look for that in every new one. Fred. OK. My deal with joining Crank baits so I use a jointed crank bait. Primarily in slow scenarios because they they give off the illusion of speed. There's more motion in a jointed crank bait. So if we're going pure vibration. Excuse me, we're. We're looking for Max thump, Max vibration, somebodies calling me and I'm not going to take it. If we're gonna. Sorry about that. We're doing it live. And that was the that was the call about a bait.
Steven:
Me.
Steven:
From from Livingston dude. But anyway, if I'm going for Max thump, Max vibration, I'm going with a non segmented bait because that bait. It operated at higher. You don't need the jointed nature of it, and especially when it comes to trolling, they get deeper on a shorter line. Right. If you look at the trailing chart for the trolling data from from say A Joe Booker straight depth Raider and a Joe Booker jointed depth Raider, right? Classics. The jointed models run shallower. A lot of that's because you have that split in the. You now have this flat plane with the body's been split. That is creating resist. In the rear of.
Speaker
Back.
Steven:
And so it's it's a matter of of surface area blah blah. So the surface adjoining body, the surface area of the bait, is increased by being 2 halves is why it runs shallower. Some people swear by. It could work on your specific like we gotta have a joint about it. But for me, I'm going straight body now. Did joining bodies really come into play slow presentations? So Adjointed body allows me to work a bait far slower, but it has more action. Right. So let's take a straight depth. Join a depth rater or you throw out the straight depth rater. I'm reeling it in. If I go support, we're talking goofy, slow, barely turning the handle. We're getting a Boo Boo.
Speaker
Boo.
Steven:
Side to side action, right real slow at this kind of rock. To thought. The joint body has little bone movement, more undulation. You kick it up just a little bit, not. It's a little bit more pronounced, so I'm using jointed bodies in slow presentations, cold fronts, ticking and clicking rocks. All that fun stuff. That's when I'm thinking joining. If, if it's summertime straight bodies, that's what I'm rocking. Jay, any other end point there you got you know, because you got some of those classics like the ***** minnow. Some of that stuff where it's like. I don't think that's their intent, yeah.
Jaybird:
Yeah, some cool boss shads and stuff like that, but there's far fewer jointed versions in in any. Of main. Crankbait style that's on the musky market, right? And you know, you hit the big ones, you know, like the straight versus jointed Death Raider by Joe Booker tackles. Like you said, it's the illusion of speed with with jointed presentations and crankbaits and.
Steven:
Baby, we, we.
Jaybird:
Great at slower speeds.
Steven:
We built 2 models to sell you 2 baits. No, I mean there's. There's a time and a place.
Speaker
Oh.
Steven:
There's a time and a place for that and. Lot of people go. They. I say that, Jacqueline, because some people think if I've heard that well, they just do that now. Right. They run. And you when when used in the appropriate setting, there is a there is. A market difference in the response you'll get from a joint crankbait. I've said it on here, like the Pounder from Livingston, which is that was done before I was guy got there guys, by the way. But you know, it's pretty, pretty close to a jointed depth rater, but. It runs slow, slow, slow, slow and it has a really slow float up and me and you talk about joining crankbaits where you know, if I've got to hit stupid deep, I'll get that pound around like I'm barely turning the handle and just kind of doing its FL. Dance there.
Jaybird:
Like Joe Joe Buchers been saying for years, you know if you are casting these these classic depth Raiders, you know. Great version. You know he works at. More like a jerkbait. Versus the, you know, the jointer version is, you know, great over weeds. You know, you wouldn't think a joint, a deep diver per se.
Steven:
Because it has a shallower running trajectory.
Steven:
Would be great.
Jaybird:
But I.
Steven:
And and it's moving slower over the weed, more whatever. More visualization of the weed cups.
Jaybird:
Then it pops up quick.
Steven:
Yep, pops up. Then as someone who almost exclusively fishes from the back. The boat. What suggestions do you have about casting and bait selection to make sure we're maximizing our ability to raise fish so? You know if if you got your buddy in the boat or you got two people in the boat, you know. That comes to. Selection can come down to a matter of of a boat control as well. You know if you're running it maybe, maybe he's not running the boat. Maybe he is running the boat, right? Some guys will have the pedal back there, kind of doing the Northwoods guide you thing. Blah blah blah. However you want to. It you got to watch like? You know your boat control. And you know, in the back of the boat, if you do have to move the boat forward, you know, the guy in the front has. Little. More room to cast and lead where you might be relegated in the back of the boat to to doing some. So like top water out of the back, if if the boat's moving, if it's like the boat's moving, you have a more influence. 'cause, you're casting angle. Is truncated by the guys in front of you. Typically, if you're the back of the boat guy and to the crux of question, what do I have to do to move? Move more fish. Let's guess that he's the back of the boat guy, which is the best spot to fish in a. By the way. Nobody realized that your fig. It's the best spot you have. Generally the most stable platform. You're the lowest to the water and you have less crap to get in your way when. Figure out.
Jaybird:
What a good point, right?
Steven:
People go. Why do you got out of the front of the boat? It's the worst place to fish. There's your easiest answer, by the way. I'd rather you know people go. Do you do? Well, me and Boo back to Buuk or Buck. That's buck. Did right. It's the crappiest place to be, and depending on how you run it, you know if you're running, it knows. I run my boat. Most people don't realize how often I run my boat entirely backwards. Where I'll go down a pass and I'm actually running the motor in reverse. That's how I play the wind, but I deal with a lot of current on in the in general. But you know, if you got your buddies or whomever, hell says clients, you got clients up front. You got your buddies. And you've got the cat's bird seat of where to be fishing out of. Um. I'm going to. I'm going to throw more aggressive baits, probably. You know the quintessential like line up for, let's say, Wisconsin, Canada. We're trying to get down, put some on top water, put somebody on a bucktown, then you're throwing like. An aggressive crank, a suspending crank or rubber, right? And my thought is always been if I got two guys in front of me and. Is how I got I. Hate to backing boat? Grew up like this, where it's just like you got 2, you got family members. In front of you and they're saturating everything in front of you. Do something different. You know, do something different. That's the. They they you know, there's a whole I could go down the rabbit hole about casting accuracy and coverage, but let's say they're good casters and they're covering stuff. Something. That's going to be it.
Jaybird:
Yeah, I mean, I fished the, you know, the back of the boat off and especially with you, you know it's like. I love. Don't look it as like your your fishing cleanup, you know.
Steven:
Now, now, if you're not, you're not.
Jaybird:
'Cause. You're. It's a whole different deal.
Steven:
The other thing is OK. This is. We're going to just not get all these questions done. We're going to do another 45 minutes or an hour this week, Jay. You know what we'll do more on a get back. I got to run to a thing. Take a pause and I'll call you back. Anyway. With. With that being said that the the back of the boat thing, this is just a pet peeve of mine. When dudes are in a boat, they they the guy in the nose of the boat thinks every fish is is 40 feet in front of the nose of the boat, right? And the next? They're casting at this really angle in front of the boat.
Speaker
Vote.
Steven:
Leaving this gigantic slice of the pizza pie to the back of the boat. Right. So my different approach with the the guiding thing is I'm forcing you, if I think if if I think if I'm in the nose of a boat and we're going nose into. If I think Muskies are on blades or top water, I'm going to be throw. Most of the time. That they're not on to kind of. People off. Don't throw over me. And I'm not saying like I'll throw over me, but people are usually not going to throw past you. Get past you. You're kind of forcing people to hit stuff now if you're fishing with buddies, let them do it. You want to kick your buddies, **** in the boat every time. Say anything. About where he's casting because he's going to cast in front of the boat, which every time the boat advance, he's just leading the boat, leading the boat, leading the boat, leaving Jack dynamic areas of open water and unfished water behind you. If you're with good guys and they know how to cast and they know how saturation casting is impact. Them do something different anyway.
Steven:
Yeah.
Jaybird:
And when you're near the back of the boat, pay attention where you know the other people in the boat are casting where their baits are landing and and you know, fish the gaps.
Steven:
Back of the boat, Jay. That's what we used to say back in the day, back in the boat with you, David.
Speaker 1
Bingo.
Steven:
Great podcast guys got into the addiction of muskie fishing last year. In Kentucky and mostly fish Green River, Green River lake. Awesome. I love that place. What's your thoughts on Kentucky's first muskie fishing? You know, he talked about some other southern stuff. Me a holler if you want to go. Did Kentucky's great. I mean, we had a place on on the run back in the day, so. I I give him my druthers, one verse one. I'm gonna go. I like Green River freaking. I'll get Green River cave. Run it. It's not as. In comparison to where I'm at, it's definitely. So it's it's kind you kinda have the best of both worlds in Kentucky. A little steal. They're still on the blades a bit more and all this stuff, and plus, you know, cave run that you're not. You're aided by the hatchery being right there. Right. They're always pumping fish in there, so it got good numbers over the Green River. Man, there's some spooky big ones will come out of there with pretty good regularity if you know where to. Go. But you know general thoughts, I mean, you know, there's nothing bad you can say about. The one thing I tell ya, there's a lot of water that David, you didn't mention a lot of small water that you can sink your teeth into and find some cool stuff. Let's hit the next. I think I just skipped. Bobby, what's your thoughts on Boga grips? Don't use. Situational use any jaw spreader mods to keep them in. Brand recommendations simple stainless steel seem to struggle first with the jaw spreader. Let me look here, Jay. We're rocking and rolling, Barbara ran. Let me look here, jaw spreader. Tyrant tackle. Are they sold out?
Jaybird:
We're getting more in tomorrow.
Steven:
Get a hold. Good, good, good timing. The tyrant tackle. Do they have like these little vs in them? And there's more surface area that's going to be your huckleberry. Other like the straight. Straight up. You know your rap was. They're fun. Whatever. Your bakers are fine that they're hitting the fish with this pointy. It's just jamming more holes in them and and you have this tiny little area. So you got to kind of poke into the fish and and and be kind on this little pokey end, if you will. What's the oh pros? Old pros, jaw spreader. Musky dilator.
Speaker
No.
Steven:
Oh pros man, I have had so much coffee today. If you can tell. Out pro OK. Look. I got little rubber. Rubber tips? Keep you in the. So those are a viable option for 20 bucks. Oprah. Looks like an increased surface area there with some some a protective rubber end to protect your musky boge. It. It's been said that that they can damage the jawbone. You put a lot of pressure in a really small spot back to. Back to surface area. Right. So we have this metal thing and we have the weight of the fish slumped over when you're holding a fish with a bup, you've got kind of like this, this muscle arm dealing your flexion, right. Making a fist and holding that thing and you got support of the belly. And now you've got this weird schlumpy weight in the center. If you look at somebody. That's fine if you want to hold them that way. I don't care. Not. I'm not your dad. But the way you want to hold. Fish, you're not really supporting that area behind the head and you kind of have a hold of him uncentered, if you. You don't have the weight supported as much, so I don't think like the boga grip is is putting a lot of of pressure in a very small area from the nature of how you're holding. Of the fish is concentrated on that area so that can can cause damage, right? You know, I've seen guys that. That's what they want to use. I don't use them. We got a lot of gloves at the musky shop. If you're worried about getting cut. I have known guys J I've talked to Jay about it like, OK. You're a surgeon. You're a guitar player. You're, you know, whatever you, you freaking. You're a hand model for dawn. Dish soap. You can't get cut up, OK, you know, but be be smart about how you're using those devices. You know, may I don't know, Jay, how you would even do that. You know, like I said, if you look at the just kind of the the physical dynamics of it and the distribution of the weight on the fish, it's not the, it's not the boga grip itself. It's not that the Bogo grip touching the mandible is doing the damage, it's the weight applied in such a small area. And it's it's with metal. So you know, the thing with Muskies they got one way to feed themselves. One way to do anything. Don't have hands. Yet we're working on. But they don't have hands, Jay. Jay's got a project in his. He's into genetics now, but they don't have hands yet, so try to take care of their mouth as much as possible. Alan. What are the best ways to convert top water strikes into catches? Any ideas? Hooks modding baits, swivels, split rings, things okay quick off the RIP here. What I like to do is make sure that my hook is heat shrunk, right? So you get your what's 1 like a Gooch's tally Wacker Goochas. Not. They don't have heat shrink, Jay. Else doesn't have heat shrink.
Jaybird:
Top. From **** Rose Smitty.
Steven:
Top kicks, mini. The Smitty.
Jaybird:
Whopper ploppers yeah. Most of them don't.
Steven:
Little bits, little little ********.
Jaybird:
We're talking. The we're talking about the rear hook.
Steven:
Ear. So I like to on a rear hook. I like to have that heat shrunk or go hillbilly. Little electrical tape will go a long way when I'm cutting hooks out. Like if I'm on a top water bite or a buck tail bite. Seen it. I'm not eat shrinking stuff a little bit of electrical tape will hold that hook exactly where you need it to be. Easier to deal with, especially if it's raining. Blah blah blah. So get the hook sticking straight out the back Ultra Ultra Sharp now. If it's a matter of like you're getting the strike and you're not getting hook penetration. Will get there but. Have your hooks back. Have them really sharp. Have them in great condition. I like to have the body hook on my top water, especially my tail props. I'll use a little dental rubber band to have that up under the body. Right. Yeah, I. It's something we've talked about a bunch of times. Can. I used to deal with. Deal with my. I'll deal with all kinds of baits. Little. Rubber band. You can go to the Walmart and buy them there for you know for either like you know you have your braces. They're for your braces or, like braiding people's hair. Really strong little small rubber bands. I buy these big old box black ones about once a. How often you need them, but that can hold your bottom hook to the body of the bait without interfering with it. It's running that will help you out. The thing with getting hit on top water and not getting them a lot of times is the hook set. Close your eyes if you see a fish tailing behind it. Look, don't watch him wait to feel the weight and that's your predominant problem most people have. Don't set the hook. Because you saw something happen, don't set the hook because you saw him strike. The hook because you felt the fish. Right. People will pull them away from Muskies who, like **** out and he and it's it's a matter of milliseconds sometimes. Wait till you feel the fish 'cause he's going to follow through with that thing in his mouth and you got boom he's going down with it. Boom.
Jaybird:
Absolutely.
Steven:
Mm.
Steven:
Right. The ones that are easy to miss are the hook. Or like if they come out and nip it from behind. And that's why you want to have really sharp hooks, right? Really sharp. Real, real, real sharp hooks on your top waters and have them sticking out, because if he comes up and kind of just nabs her from behind, that's going to help you. Top Waters wait to. Feel the weight and if you got to close your eyes, close your eyes. Don't wreck your boat. That's.
Jaybird:
Yeah, and convert on the Figure 8. That's a big thing too. Is just make sure you drive that thing. Get some elevation going on the Figure 8. You know, drive it driving underwater.
Steven:
Smell of Asian. Anyway, one more, Jay. We'll have to take a brief recording break. I'll. I gotta get got to do a thing and we'll keep pounding through as many as we can. I love the information I've been getting from the podcast the past. It's really helped me dial in on some fish and make sense of what I'm doing wrong. My question today is what baits can I be using besides a Bondy for vertical jigging? You know, really cold temperatures, he says. Where he's at. It's cold up. You even have some ice in places. Something you know he. These fish, he's looking for something. They're just gone. Pounce. They're just going to go for everyone seems to be jigging big bodies where I'm at. I'm trying to find an. I can't talk about. Some Bondi stuff last week, Jay or something.
Jaybird:
Yeah, yeah, we did a box of Bonnies coming in tomorrow, hopefully too.
Steven:
Yeah.
Steven:
The the the deal is this back to. You know the Bondi is unique and it's waiting. I think we compared like the Pegasus and the overall way. If you want something different, man, you know we. Heck, I think I think last week when I seen just it's just a slab of something. You know. At there's a lot of weird salt water stuff. If you're really looking for weird jigging stuff. They make all kinds of crazy heavy crap. Um, but you know, first and foremost, if if there's a lot of pressure. And there I know where he's at. A lot of people doing. They're just jigging bodies off the bottom all day, all day, all day. You could mix it up like I said, by by modifying just about any rubber bait I talked about last week with the Cotter pin and that you can add blades to just anything. You could take an old torn up bulldog you can take. Anything. A jig? Simple. It's just got to hit the bottom and it's got to be able to have a, you know, good motion, blah, blah. That fuzzy does it. Talked about there's not, in my opinion, especially where he's at, there's not enough weight, but you can modify his fuzzy does it. And and to really get a significant jig, you're going to have to do something there, Jay. You would say what's like alternative jig?
Jaybird:
Yeah, we talked about it last.
Steven:
Yeah.
Jaybird:
I think it was that most innovation Rippin dog, that's.
Steven:
Ripping. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jaybird:
It's in the same vein as a Bonnie bait. That's a cool alternative.
Steven:
Yeah, one more Zach from pencil. What's up, Steve and Jaybird? Glad you guys survived the year cicadas with Joe being. On bloodhook. OK. He's a Belgian. Get to it here. Funny. I'm a big bass busky enthusiast and I was hoping you guys could point me towards some reels for Pike bass fishing. If, OK, so we say busking. If you're fishing Pike and bass, he calls it **** fishing. I'm confident with my rod choice, but I'm looking to get something to toss out, like a maps #5 some DT sixes. I love my pin, fathom and ***** for reference. Love the work. OK, so he likes the pin *****. He likes that. What's something? You know, we obviously I know the way hanging fruit is going to be that fricking the Shimano 300, but he likes the pen. What else is there that size?
Jaybird:
Little bit smaller, a little bit smaller in terms of weight and line capacity. Options.
Steven:
But he likes the. He's not a Shimano guy and like I said, I'm I'm taking away the trenks 300.
Jaybird:
Not a Shimano guy, OK?
Steven:
Just.
Jaybird:
Or the. There's curado options too.
Steven:
You just make it out with everyday.
Jaybird:
Lost him.
Speaker
Yeah.
Steven:
What we got here?
Jaybird:
See, there's some small dialogues that called that coastal coastal.
Speaker
Yeah, tatula.
Steven:
Coastal. Yeah, there you go.
Jaybird:
Yeah, there's 200 size, 200 size would be right up your alley. I'd look at something.
Steven:
Well, that's.
Speaker 1
Like that in the Iowa? Yeah. Hold on.
Steven:
Where is that? Yeah, that's a cool. OK. So funky real it's a fast real too, because then baskets, I got one move, turn the handle.
Jaybird:
Sorry.
Steven:
I got one move. If you turn that. Anybody that ******** birthday.
Speaker
Mate. Got the mirror, man.
Steven:
Just turned back.
Jaybird:
Yeah, but die two hundreds 179. That's a good point there.
Steven:
Yeah, yeah, that. I'm looking here 32 inches per handle turn 15 lbs of drag. You go that that would be a that. And plus it's built for it's coastal. It's not the coast of Green Bay. You know this things over build. This is not the coast coastal central Wisconsin or Pennsylvania. It's it's a saltwater grade reel. That's why I would gravitate to that, Jay. Going to take a break. Call you back.
Speaker
OK.
Steven:
Jay, I'm back. I just had to go.
Jaybird:
I. I can hear that I was going to say. Can see, but I really.
Steven:
That was people don't realize that was like a two hour 2 hour couple seconds there. I had to had to run to appointment. Jay, do you want? Would you like to know one of the major, major, major signs? That you live in Appalachia? I'm. It's it's like jeopardy final question here.
Jaybird:
That you live in Appalachia?
Steven:
Signs that you live in Appalachia.
Jaybird:
Is that the mountain range by you? That what that is.
Steven:
It's a area.
Steven:
You OK?
Steven:
Applebee's leaves Wisconsin.
Jaybird:
Yeah, OK, the main reasons.
Steven:
To know how to.
Speaker
Check.
Steven:
I'll text and hear it.
Jaybird:
You're gonna have to throw me a bone. Is.
Steven:
With the employee at the BBQ restaurant OD.
Speaker 1
Go back.
Steven:
Yes. Did you set your stuff a little barbecue in your? An old fat Connie hits the floor with the they have to come Narcan or *** right there in the middle of the barbecue joint. Damn. Damn.
Jaybird:
Wow, that's a jolt to the system right there.
Steven:
We call that.
Jaybird:
You're going down some.
Steven:
Call that dinner and a show, boys.
Jaybird:
Yeah, yeah, I'll skip dessert tonight. Think that.
Speaker
Check.
Steven:
With pretty epic. Alright, let's get through some more of. Greg, my musky are my fishing partner and I are coming from Western PA to northern Wisconsin in the end of June. We're going to fish Boom Lake, the Rhinelander flowage. We'll also fish the Wisconsin River that flows into boom. We'll be fishing from a 17 foot adventure sport. Plates are, I'm. He's giving a lot of details here. How far can we go upriver from boom? What are the top fish and best muskie baits and this flowage so I've actually fished that they I think they named it boom because the amount of tree stumps you can hit. But. Boom. You hit one boom. That's an interesting place, not a lot of people hit. So you have basically the river just going into just a I guess we consider a reservoir. And and you've got this big open water basin in the river. The river shell is up a ton. And what I can tell you about. Area. It's like never ending shallow flats, right?
Steven:
Mm.
Steven:
Shallow, flat, shallow, flat edges, shallow flat stumps, flats. There's plenty of stuff to hit. So you need to be careful when you're doing that. Main Basin, like the open water you'll see. They got their little, you know, it's like a subpar version of the minaqua bat. I hear Jay right there. Got it's not.
Jaybird:
Right, right.
Steven:
It ain't the north greatest ski show, but it's. Of them. They got their little ski thing going on there. So you basically have a little public park little area right there and ski shows, but that main open area, I believe it's, I can't remember if it's a pointer aisle and it's been about, but you'll see it right in front of the area where they do the SK. And you got the outflow and everything. You've got a big open water basin. Caught them. Kind of just zombie trolling. Just there's not a lot of like it out in the open water. Just open water. There's not. Not a definitive structure and you'll see open water bait. Fish and he will pick up suspenders, so have done well on on, you know, classics like it's straight depth Raider. I've actually caught him on on headlocks out there. Trolling that open water. So you have two dynamically different fisheries within one area. You've got really shallow river, big open water base. And by that time, if you guys are coming up in June, you know, give the guys at the shop a hard because they're going to be able to tell you what colors are hitting. But primarily up north, you know you can't go wrong with your purple, so that. Great flame. You got your chartreuse and purples good. You know, obviously black and orange is classic. Can't go wrong. And that water does have a bit of a tannic feel to it.
Speaker
Mm.
Steven:
Going to have to think about it from that perspective. Again, purple, purple, purple, purple, purple, purple drop.
Steven:
Very good.
Steven:
Walleye colors work and do not sleep. Don't you? Do not sleep on that pumpkin collar. Cracking pumpkin and a shocking twist. Jay and I know this all too well. Pumpkin it. I don't know what they. I don't know why they like it. A reason there's a pumpkin colored. Bait in that line up. Look here. When's the last time? Owed working at a BBQ restaurant.
Jaybird:
Can't say I'm familiar with that scene.
Steven:
OK God this frickin BBQ.
Jaybird:
Thanks for asking, but thanks for asking.
Steven:
The BBQ was freaking awesome though.
Speaker
I.
Steven:
You know, it's like you're like, yeah, four out of five stars isn't fat. I don't know if her name was Connie, but here's fat Connie tweaking on the floor. Know excellent food.
Steven:
In.
Steven:
Service. Not so much when you're, you're geeking. They're on the floor. She's lucky she didn't like losing either. A peanut shell Jay. Sure. You know people from how do you change tactics going from muddy stained floors to clear?
Jaybird:
Chips. Lyon. Frank? Sure, yeah.
Steven:
Clear stained pole legs. So he's saying muddy stain flow just to clear. Stained bull. I'm trying to differentiate you asking if like from a stained flowage to like a Clear Lake or it says clear stained or we mean tannic. Just talk water colors. So if we're going from like a flowage. To combat mud, muddy true muddy water and and this like got to realize there's there's different, there's different things cooking here. You have tannic like we just talked about that is formed by small Wizards that live at the bottom of the lake. Also, tannic acids tannids have to have a little bit to do with that. Between the Wizards and the tannins. Hey, what is it? Is it tannins? Tannins. Whatever. The the main what actually causes it other than the small Wizards creates that that brownish hue in the water, which is not nice.
Jaybird:
It's a Smitty wizard spell.
Speaker
And.
Jaybird:
Causes the whole darn.
Steven:
It's a rusty Smitty. Spell resting on the bottom of the leg because.
Speaker
Hmm.
Steven:
But you have. The introduction of the tannic acids, whatever that caused the brown the off color, right. Then you have muddy water which is literally from current and flow and off run getting things muddy. Literally Muds introduced silt introduced the water column, blah blah blah or mud. Then you have. Turbidity is when you have. Things high in the water calm, for example, like clay and death will build up where it's like it looks like it's muddy and cloudy at the top, but it's not. It's just high in the water column and then clear. Realistically, what we've got to look at is we're. At you know. Adding more flash and more sound off into overcome darker water conditions. You've got to consider how how not just. How's this bait look? And what has it look in this hue or this color of water? Again, Harkins back to what we just said about purple standing out in the tannic water up there, right? It just does it.
Jaybird:
Something about it, yeah.
Steven:
There's something about it. It's got a shimmer, a Sheen, something where their visual. Their visual acuity is far easier from the pick up on that purple than just about anything. Else, but what you got to consider is when you're changing like water clarity watercolor that also changes light penetration which is far more important to me than than what color bait your throat, right. So when you deal with a turbid water water, there's turbidity. Those fish are going to be even on high, bright, sunny day. A lot of times they're still going to be shallow because the light's not able to penetrate right water. Doesn't penetrate as well. Jim clear. They're gonna go deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, right. So you take like Lake Geneva or something like. Pretty Dang clear as as long as the House boats and the yachts are out there tearing up. Pretty clear you'll find fish that are hanging pretty low on a bright sunny day, and they're not coming up until evening or night. That is some delicious sweet tea. Jay, let me ask you this. All honesty, it's not like I stepped over her convulsing body. But was it rude of me to go get a refill while somebody like literally jonesing out on the floor?
Steven:
OK.
Jaybird:
Because I. I feel that Gillespie, you said, hey, can I get a refill over here?
Speaker
Why not?
Jaybird:
I mean, that's.
Steven:
Like I walked over a body, but I might have walked 10 feet by her. And you know what?
Jaybird:
Yo.
Steven:
You're geeking. I just want another tee to go, lady. You're not stopping me, obviously, but it's still good. If you're.
Jaybird:
Sitting there. Oh, you got a backup somewhere?
Speaker 1
You know.
Steven:
You know, I don't know. Maybe I'll.
Steven:
Mm.
Steven:
You know, maybe eternal damnation for stepping over somebody'd body as they're geeking out. Out there. But we got to factor that in as far as the water clarity, how that that diffuses light in your light penetration. So you can the the darker the water. This is very loose with them. The darker the water. We. Fish shallower in general, right? So the effects of a cold front effects of things are not going to not going to play as heavily. So if I'm going from like. From a turbid body of water to a clear body water. Gun from WABA goon in Canada to Eagle. Two different ball games. Two different ball games, you know, and I like that juxtaposition because those lakes are exceptionally close to one another, and it couldn't be any different. In watercolour in the summer that the composition, the structures are not that dissimilar, but we have a complete difference in color and you go, I mean we're talking literally guys the.
Steven:
Yeah, frank.
Steven:
You know from doctor I mean, if you went from government docs to the closest dock on Eagle, it would take you just a bit. Know what I'm saying? I mean, as the crow flies, they say Jay. You know, it's the hill build.
Jaybird:
Just down the.
Steven:
Road, as the hillbilly tweaks on the floor. That's how far it is.
Jaybird:
But right around the corner.
Steven:
Right around the corner. Sir. Sir, are you really getting? Yes. It said free refills. Don't care if she dies anyway.
Steven:
Wow.
Steven:
Others cookies. There's nobody at the counter. Anyway. You know, there's two bodies of water being right there. So similar yet so. Just like you know, just like my therapist says. You you realize the effect that water clarity has on musky staging. Right. When you go from that body water to the next, the same thing can be said about the Northwoods, you know. The old adage is go, go, go, go dark early in the season, you know, go to that stained stuff. Warms up faster, yadda yadda yadda. And you'll see that. Anyway, we got so many ruckus tuckas here through how many? Many more. Do we have in this? I'm sitting here, OK, Lawrence, Steve, Stache, question. What's the scariest situation that you've had to deal with guiding? There I was at a BBQ restaurant.
Speaker
Tuesday.
Steven:
With a Tuesday, it was today. She just tweaks out voice, right? Connie has a Connie fit frothing at the mouth. Can I get a place to go order? Scariest situation. Scary situation. The scared it's. I wasn't guiding, obviously, because we're freaking up and we're we're filming stuff in Canada, me and Tim. This the the, the the scariest I've ever been on a boat. Was we were in between two storms on Eagle and we saw the P soup rotation in the sky. Thought we're about to get tornado and literally it was so bad. You know the power pulse J on the back of boats. Have the shallow water anchors. We're in Tim's boat. We put those down and we we jam the nose up on a shallow shore and put their shallow water anchors down and the wind was blowing so hard and the waves were so bad we were actually tucked behind a island and it was so violent that it broke. Shallow water anchors free and we're just spinning like a teacup. There's a guy that was. That was guiding walleye, and he and his party found us and we actually tied the boats together and got our engines or got our engine going and taught our boats together and jammed them up on an island. Together, that's how bad it was. You're like. Well, hey, nice to meet you. Got you now. So that was that was terrifying. It wasn't a good. The the drive back in ink, everybody just like, you know, you'll get 2 foot chop and everybody goes. All we're in four footers. You want. Are not in four footers. We were in four. It was like, oh God, it was horrible that that was, that was bad. The the scariest was is I mentioned and he's probably asking because the podcast is losing. Losing a person overboard here when it's sub freezing in 37° water that was. That that was that was scary. That was that, that that takes the. I never wanna do that again, so be safe out there that that one. Sometimes you can get that fricking. That reality check. Oh my goodness, people. Phone. Go away. Potential spam and they wonder why did the intro that way Jay? They wonder what about the? I all day long potential spam diversion.
Jaybird:
Yeah, it's all about to divert.
Steven:
Your version. Yeah, hello, Sir. I would like to talk to you about your baits extended warranty.
Jaybird:
Hello, J bird.
Steven:
So anyway, man, if they if they only knew.
Jaybird:
Very weird.
Steven:
Like the amount of scam emails you get for because of the shop and everything. Oh, goodness, just the crap that comes in. Yeah, you know. My name is David. So OK, but yeah, I mean. Losing somebody overboard. That's that's scary stuff in that that cold water got whatever, much less stepping over somebody tweaking to get another tea.
Speaker
Face off.
Steven:
How long do you cast a lure without any followers or bites before you decide to change colors or? Lure types.
Jaybird:
That's a good question.
Steven:
Love the podcast it it. It's there's there's 2 levels of this. If I know. The pattern's going to hold. I'm notorious for this guiding. Let's say I got on. I'm out on Monday and we get a couple in the boat or we get a nice win or whatever. And I'm positive, nothing's. I've been my bait chick. Everything's looking gravy. I might throw the same crap all day long because I know what's going to happen now. I'm usually doing that if we're in very narrow bite windows, if you. OK, the musky activity windows generally been been 1020 minutes of *****. Few followers, maybe a strike? I'm not playing with presentation too much, right? If it's been working and I know that it everything's the same, don't get me wrong and you'll hear people well. You can't count on that. You usually can't. But if I'm positive and I know I'm dialed. Dan, I'm not making a lot of changes if I if I step on a new body of water or I haven't fished in a while or or whatever, let's say I got to go to Wisconsin. Know pop up there, OK? We'll do it here in a few months. Got the bash coming. Was it July 19th? Jerry, we got that coming up here soon, so I'll get to get to test my skills yet again. Jay will pick some stupid lake and I'll go out there and figure it out. And and when I'm figuring something out, I'm starting with, you know, I'm starting from experience, but I'm starting at Ground Zero. And at that point, you've got to look at structure we got to cover. We got to look at forage. And I'm going to play around inside of a set of parameters that I developed from what my electronics, my read of the water and the season outer telling me. And you go well, how? Just answer my damn question. How often do you do it? Nah, here's the thing. If we are, say, late fall. Cold or water? Cold. Water. But it ain't icing up yet. We're towards the end, right? Well, I know I can eliminate top water, buck tales shallow. I've eliminated a ton of bait, so I've narrowed my bandwidth of what I what should be effective.
Jaybird:
Yeah.
Steven:
And then I'm just going to stay inside of. Bait class. For quite some time. Because seasonality and all these other factors said I'm throwing rubber, let's just you cut the chase for Castle. Let's say we're throwing. You go. OK, well, the forage base in this lake is XY and Z. Cutting this size class. If I've kinda just narrowed it down for musky math. I'll give it 2 hours, 3 hours if I'm coming into a major or the minor star or major. I might get a little bit more exploratory, but you could use context clues more so than anything. Seasonality, current weather kind.
Speaker
Of.
Steven:
Let the structure dictate your running depth, you. You can do the math. Any given day and kind of narrow it down to one or two things. So you're not sitting there flipping through the tackle box all day long right now. The flip side of that coin. What if it's not a deep bite? What if it's a shallow water bite? Shallow where it. The more options you have. Most musky baits don't run past five feet. Like if you took every if we, if you like God, this is a doctor Bob project, you know, make a make a damn excel spreadsheet of every musky bait that's currently available and their their their Max running depth. Love to know what the percentage is. Because and I'm talking like with not either you know whether is their effective depth range.
Jaybird:
Right, right.
Steven:
Of course you have a from 8 to 0 is freaking probably 90% of your baits, if not a higher percentage. Alright, that's where it gets crazy. Are they on cracks on them? Big cracks. Are they on small cracks? They on. Are they on Twitch? Are they on divers? Whamwing whin. Wham. Where it gets. So you got to look at that, but let's take it down to bare bones basics. Say you don't have a clue. You don't have a freaking clue in your, just out there winning it and doing your best. You know what I would recommend you do find. Do your homework on this looks good, you know. Here's vegetation. Here's a structural. Anybody you don't even have to have own a musky bator or muskie rod to look at a map. And kind of work through cover and structure and you go OK, let's make a couple passes through this. Do a complete pass with a buck tail, then turn the boat. Do a complete pass with a dive and rise. Then turn the boat around and do a complete pass with a crankbait. Right. So you can't look at what the time of debate, what you get, what I'm saying, right? Yeah. What kind of break it down? What you.
Jaybird:
Yeah, inflammation and that's another thing. Let's say, you know you.
Steven:
Yeah, well.
Jaybird:
The previous program you were talking about, if you were going out, hopefully you got somebody in the boat with you, you know, and it's just like we are sticking with our primary. Presentation here. You know, because of the factors that you just went over, you know you got two people you can you can play with speed and tempo and you know, stuff like that a little bit if it's not working 'cause he was asking originally. I think you know. Long. Do you stick with it, you know?
Steven:
Well, yeah, your time a lot, man.
Jaybird:
And you could shorten that whole. You could. You can shorten that whole time frame by. By having. Extra person on the boat and make sure that you're not doing the same kind of tempo with similar type presentations.
Steven:
Absolutely. All right, Pat, Katie.
Speaker 1
And like.
Steven:
Yeah. Good afternoon, gentlemen. I fish. I fish in southern Montana when I describe the lake people I want. People will know. It's a. Very Clear Lake with light penetration, it can reach reach up to 30 feet. This lake has all type of forage from pan fish, trout, walleye, Cisco, and others. Just seeing what your method of attack would be on this lake, So what I would do I would.
Speaker
OK.
Steven:
I would put on camouflage. And I would sneak up on the lake very quietly before attacking it. Do you think, Jeff?
Jaybird:
Sounds like one that gets a lot. Yacht traffic.
Steven:
Probably that one.
Jaybird:
Would be. Yeah, fish at night and get really good at trolling.
Speaker
Well, how?
Steven:
Now, yeah, if it if it. If I said it earlier. Geneva, I think on another question.
Speaker
I.
Steven:
Like that's? Yeah, we all. We all know buddy. All know it's like Geneva. Been there, done that. Big old boats when you got heavy boat traffic. I mean, it's just your yachts cruising around. The best action I've heard is it it sunset and at night or early early in the. Morning tubes, Bulldogs, stuff like that. Especially 'cause. You're still going to get pressure out there. Do something different. You know, I still like the premise or the thought process. Like literally just sneaking up on a leg though, Jay.
Jaybird:
Sneaking up on that lake.
Steven:
Just go. Back there and that's why I said where camouflage you can stab it.
Jaybird:
Kevin.
Steven:
Got your buck? Knife 110 and just start stabbing the water. Take him down eventually, Sean. I'd like Steve's stash from the 80s. There's we've seen those. That's some Todd and Dave in there. Oh, he.
Speaker
But.
Steven:
Where do I apply to be head sniffer at the musky shop? Head bait sniffer umm I.
Jaybird:
Don't know if the owners.
Steven:
Nothing. Number he can hook you up. Yeah. Is that like a cork sniffer, Jay, is it like?
Jaybird:
Did we talk about earlier?
Steven:
No, but maybe you know, you get your wine aficionados everything you know.
Jaybird:
Where did that come from? Well, yeah. The one year was cheese, right? Get it?
Steven:
Now I'm just saying like, yeah, now you don't get it. Yeah, there you go.
Jaybird:
Remember, you're talking with spoiled cheese in the hot sun. Well, he got. Someone to smell it. You're ********.
Steven:
Way now. Up. What? I've messed. Oh, here's a Jay question. I I kind of messed up which ones I was going through here. All out of order because I'm just reading them out. Of the e-mail, Todd. What software do you? Are you guys like video editing out of? I'd like to play around with some GoPro video from recent fishing trips, but I'm. To this. Whole filming thing and one of the little guidance, J Taylor. A tailor made JSE. What video software would would this young man really enjoy?
Jaybird:
Editing out of Adobe premiere can't beat it.
Speaker
Replay.
Steven:
Dolby premiere. Wow. Dang.
Jaybird:
It's it's pretty simple to get the hang. Really just go to practice and figure out what you can do with what you have and then go from there.
Steven:
What genes?
Jaybird:
So much instructional stuff, you know you can get on YouTube and be like okay. I think I'm stuck here, you know, with. This feature, but there's a lot of lot of cool features and stuff looks great.
Steven:
You know, work with good talent. That's what saves Jays ***. Alright, Mike spent the entire afternoon driving around northern Wisconsin looking for Lake Sukatobin. I ran into **** Stumpy junior and he wasn't very helpful.
Speaker
Read.
Steven:
He would only tell me that it was situated somewhere between Chicago. International Falls, by the way. Great.
Jaybird:
That sounds like something he'd say.
Steven:
Sells. That's brick.
Jaybird:
So helpful.
Steven:
Somewhere between Chicago. Yeah, it's up. Oh yeah, just go down there, Route 75.
Jaybird:
Yeah, **** secretive man, I'm telling you.
Steven:
Dick's secrets. Oh alright.
Jaybird:
Is there a question in there?
Steven:
James. No, it was just. It was just there's so many.
Jaybird:
Oh, it's. A state. Was a good one though. Thank you.
Steven:
Just kind of. I'm just trying to. I'm just playing grab grabbing here, Jake.
Jaybird:
Do it.
Speaker
Do it.
Steven:
Greetings from the frozen tundra of northern Pennsylvania. I'm a new multispecies guy.
Speaker
Oh.
Steven:
On the Susquehanna River. It's. But we said. It's funnier if it's sukkahana and heard. You heard you guys bring up a great point about safety and having the space blankets on board. I've never thought of that as we normally fish into early mid-december before it's the river freezes up. I have a basic first aid with a couple little things I've added, but just just you know, basic hook wounds bites, gill wrecks, etcetera. Have you added anything else in your safety kit on board that newbies like myself wouldn't think of when it comes to safety for clients, especially when I've realized all walks of life? And many of them lack sea legs or getting into your boat. Dude, exactly. I love the podcast love showing people great time with the smallies on the subway, Hana and ruin their lives. To Muskie, stanks, okay back. Not. This is not the. Safety Podcast because we kind of touched on that on scary moments. But what? What is? Right. Number one, if you've never been on a boat that's on fire, have a fire extinguisher. 'cause that **** sucks. So you want that on hand? I've been there. That was exciting. Things that that I have on hand. Those instant ice packs. I've got the space blankets. I what else do I have? Super glue, big *** bottle of. Alcohol for cleaning stuff up and then in case, and I've not had to use it, but. And this is not medical advice. Jay, do the lawyer thing and said this, this is not do not misconstrued. This is medical advice. But I keep one of these ace, you know, like the Ace bandage wrap stuff like kind of sticky material. Not sticky like the the the, it's a bit just a roll of the crap, right? You can kind of take things up with it.
Steven:
Yep.
Steven:
In case there is like a bad laceration. As a means to disclose it 'cause you're not trying to like, you know, put band aids on a bad cut like you cut. Break out your knife and you cut the **** out of yourself or something. A big long cut. A nice bandage is is a means of compression, right? I can take the the the roll. Is that when it's? It's may not is a. What is that stuff? J like I'm talking about like they call it sport. It sports tape or what is it?
Jaybird:
It's. Yeah, it's West. It's just kind of sticky. It'll stick. Yeah, and. So it somewhat sticks to your skin, but as soon as you wrap it, it won't loosen up.
Steven:
How much? OK.
Jaybird:
A sponge, I think.
Steven:
Hey. Yeah, I'm looking. I. I just Google vacated here elastic rap, elastic medical rap and it comes in a little box.
Speaker
Yeah.
Steven:
I put what I do and this is a trick for your first. They'll sell first aid kits and all this crap. Take everything out of it, put in sandwich bag. 'Cause, there's nothing growed. I've done this with a client like hey, they got a musky tooth and they got freaking old mangled. Bad like, you know, we're not going. It's not like so bad we're going in, but you break out your Med kit and everything's all grown.
Speaker
OK.
Steven:
It's like, Oh yeah, use this. Use this alcohol wipe that's got mold on. You know. So take everything out, because hopefully you're not using it very often, but that ace wrap for Lac. You know, as far as that? I hate to say this. People want to be grossed out. I keep. So sounds so stupid because I had Jason, I got that little puncture on the face where I've had to cook close to the eye, but I got my eye scratched one time, right? And there's nothing worse than, like a cut or abrasion on your eyeball. It alone from there. But I have a freaking. Patch thing like new in little box. Because nothing hurts like light hitting your eye after you have a corneal abrasion. Yeah. And you tried driving the, but you're squinting real hard.
Jaybird:
Well.
Steven:
But other than, that's probably the weirdest thing I. But that's just out of a fear, like getting a bait knob or the face again. That that's all I can think of. Anything like, you know, Narcan maybe for the server if I if I was taking this person from the BBQ restaurant out and they. You just they just get full blown. Connie, tweaking there on the boat. You need Narcan for that.
Jaybird:
You. You don't have a bone saw or anything in case you got amputates. Mean you've never done that, right?
Steven:
No, not. No bone saw goodness. Grief. God trying to win a free. Well, going into the 2025 season. I feel like trolling is going to be very important. That's all he wrote.
Speaker
Hey this guys.
Steven:
That's the news from Greg B.
Jaybird:
That's positive attitude.
Steven:
There you go, he. Do you think 8 1/2 inch supernatural? Are a little obsolete and just stay with the 10s and twelves and are you going to come out with a downsized Magnus as well, OK? There is. Duff makes the IT was a 85. Called or whatever the smaller headlocks mat locks.
Jaybird:
Yeah, I've seen a few of those.
Steven:
They're not, they're not. It's just a different ball game, just a smaller body. So you got 8/10/12. I like 10. That's where I that's kind of where I live at is a 10 inch model. Man, I had a thought the other. You want to talk about a rabbit hole, Jay? This is stupid. But you look at the way a musky sees a bait, they're falling it from below and behind and you. Yeah. Not wonder how much wonder if they really care how long it is. If you're. Directly behind and. It's foreshortened. You're really not seeing a lot of the overall length. Whatever.
Jaybird:
Well, try to water displacement thing more than anything.
Steven:
It's it's it's a vibrational.
Steven:
You know, it wouldn't be coming.
Speaker 1
Up. Sure.
Steven:
Yeah, I find, you know, I find that the 10 inch baits are perfect. If you look at OK, you go a trophy size crappies 14 inches. Right. You know, measure a pan fish, you know, so 8 inch weights, kind of standard stuff. I'm trying. I'm going for big thump. I'm going to go with the 10 then he. In in in, we're giving up a little bit of the ghost here a little. Lead up. But he says, you know, you're coming out with a downsize Magnus, so. And he says, thanks for everything you guys do. And then he says thank you for making fun of that person that OD did the BBQ. Didn't say that, but he did say thanks. Well, he predicted that trolling's big this year, maybe. Guys, good guys.
Speaker
Umm.
Steven:
He's out of the. We got a time traveler, so you'll see it in in some of the magma stuff that's coming out here soon.
Jaybird:
OK.
Steven:
Jay-Z in down some video and everything and he actually just we just got one of them done. So the Magnus is just under 10 inches if you lay it out and measure it right. But there's another body that you're going to be able to get that takes that thing just to tick under 8, right? And it changes the overall look of this Magnus to look more like a pan fish. And so you buy one bait and in honest again, it's like with the cracking and stuff I found this. Switching out the tails on the crack and you know if you're really going to fish it aggressively, you need a you need some super glue on the skirts and on the paddle tails and on the grub tails. You know, me and her Beck have done stuff we really want to play with them on the. We use a small zip tie on the bait. You know, just to hold the skirt on so we don't super glue them on. You just clip it off.
Jaybird:
Yeah, right.
Steven:
The Magnus, you know, learning. And with the Kraken, it's just not a lot of surface area to grab onto there. With the Magnus, you cannot pull the back off. You can't like. You can frickin do whatever you. The tail is not coming off that big until a fish just destroys it. Not coming off that bait. So you don't really need adhesive. So what I've done is in the design on this is there's the replacement tail, the standard tail that's coming out that will keep the bait at, you know, right there, the 10 inch mark. The other tail that will take it to a downside. Kind of like the downside. And that's going to be. So you get all the same action, everything out of the same Bay, which for me it's like, OK. Let's say I'm in Wisconsin or Canada or whatever. Really, on a swim bait thing. Don't want to have to have all these freaking swim baits in the boat? I mean, between me and the fence post, they're getting so freaking expensive. I don't want to. I don't want.
Jaybird:
We got him. The man, the manga says. Variable weight system shoot.
Steven:
Well, that's I'm saying I just need one Bay.
Jaybird:
One date I.
Steven:
Looked at a lot of this crap and as you guys know, listen the show. Look at. Go. Why do I have freaking 19 freaking swim? I don't have room for this ****, you know. I need 3 deep wall like 3 shallow wall 2 and you're like and God forbid we catch a Pike and it tears a tail off or it tells, you know, tears, the paddle, tail up or whatever. Now we're just right back near taking a deeper take like 40. 35 bucks. Whatever it is, take that one Pike and throw it in the trash. That's what I'm trying to. So and just for the podcast people, I don't know if we said or not. The replacement bodies on these are under 10 bucks. That's the cool thing. So spoiler alert. So we got the pricing on it finally. Think you get the whole other? You don't get the when you buy a replacement, you don't get the hard head right, but you get the rest of the bait for 9 bucks. So you catch as many Pike as you want and you go well. Another thing I did. Made sure the plastic it's super lifelike and supple, but it's pretty damn pretty damn good. I have as far as my record right now, before I replace the body. Got 5 muskies. On one of the walleye collar bodies, it doesn't matter what color it is, but I got 5 muskies on it before it's like I need to replace that. And then you just take the back hook off and pop the body off, and you're right back to the races. But so there will be the 8 inch body. Couple podcasters been on guide trips with me and we fished in. Cool man. Works. So you've got that smaller body. You don't need to change the hooks. The one thing you're going to look at when you go with the small buddy, a man that hook is really close the back hook. Just dangerously close to the paddle, but it's not going to catch on and get in the way. So you don't even have to, you know, I'm saying you just take the back hook off, slide the whole thing on, put the shorter body on, put the hook back on. You're right back at it. So that that's up the sleeve. Yeah, spoiler alert there. Working on it here. We got here. Zach. Steve, stash question, Steve and Jay, have you ever heard of Catch Catch? On large flipping style bait rigs, I end up catching 340 inch plus Muskies this late fall 2 by a dam and one on a narrow river and. Deep hole. Like to know your thoughts. The. See you at the bash. Your favorite? Your friendly Meryl River rat. So I like that.
Speaker 1
I like I like.
Jaybird:
Josh, did you say?
Steven:
What?
Jaybird:
This is Josh.
Steven:
That nobody thinks Zach.
Speaker
That.
Steven:
Zach Merrill, River rat. Like. I like. I like a good sign off like that flipping job.
Speaker
Yeah.
Steven:
The best out I have. Joe used to catch tons of early season Muskies. When he was filming that stuff back in the day with jigs flipping jigs I mean. It they work, especially especially when you're hitting, you know he's talking about against dam walls against deep holes, they work. Jigs will work on on shallow flats. It's not something that's done in quote UN quote. Musky fishing. Very often, I think there's like that. Socks cobra jig or. Jay, that was available at one time. Probably still available. No. That's about the club. Like if somebody wanted to, like if you made like a stand up jig like a like a musky sized stand up jig, it would.
Jaybird:
No, not anymore.
Steven:
Would catch fish and like 7 dudes would get it. Like, oh, hell yeah, we needed this and their. Goes you don't throw them for Muskies. Muskies don't know man. They have no. They don't know the difference. Yeah, flipping jigs work. I had a e-mail from a podcast he was talking about. Something I thought was just bad to the bone. Getting rid of like his plastic trailers, and he's using Uncle Josh pork skins, you know, off off of some of his baits. Like dude, all this stuff interchangeable stylistically, it's interchangeable.
Steven:
Mm.
Steven:
Yes, flipping jigs work. Some guys will quote, UN quote, go Pike fishing in the early season. You know, with a little leader action on there and pick up a bunch of fish. It's kind of a sleeper things. You. You.
Jaybird:
That was a very, very viable. I mean, back in the day, like when I started at the musky shop long time ago.
Speaker
Yeah.
Jaybird:
That was a huge deal. I mean. This is almost the early days of muskie fishing. You know, it's just like Internets just coming around, stuff like that, you know, late 90s. I started in the late 90s at the musky shop.
Steven:
1890s.
Jaybird:
That was, you know. And a lot of these people are gone now. Just don't make dates anymore, but. Yeah, I mean, you look back. If you look back at. One of the old musky shop catalogs from you know, early 2000s and.
Steven:
1774 not that old.
Jaybird:
No, that was the Elmer. You know, he came out with the first one back then the.
Steven:
It's a stick made of wood.
Jaybird:
Yeah, there you go. That was an old old intro there, but yeah, the whole Jake thing.
Steven:
Yeah.
Jaybird:
Up jigs, Reaper tail bodies.
Speaker
Mm.
Jaybird:
Reapers just reapers creatures. That's what I meant to. Remember those things? Those little do nothing ugly looking. Little centipede, millipede looking thing you put on the back of a stand up jig and you know.
Steven:
Yeah.
Jaybird:
The pre wired leader was 60 LB. Seven strand, you know, 12 inch with a crane swivel on one end.
Speaker
Why?
Jaybird:
Simple stuff, but you know a lot of people use that, especially early season back. The day.
Steven:
When when you motivated podcasters? Make make some freaking jigs. Here you know.
Speaker
Yeah.
Steven:
You guys are always looking for something.
Jaybird:
Well, we just got a bunch. We just got a bunch of birdie stuff in and **** Moore still makes stand up jigs. So we carry those too, so.
Steven:
Yeah.
Jaybird:
Yeah, I put the trailer of your choice on there. Go to town.
Steven:
Get out your zip code 33 and pitch away.
Jaybird:
With your musky master 27 LB.
Steven:
They work. I mean, it's funny you say that though.
Jaybird:
Back on.
Steven:
Mean it's one of those deals. You forget some of this stuff, you know? It's it's it's you. Use it and you abuse it and you you do it to it. That still. I mean, the last time I was doing anything like that, if you remember, I was talking about crazy pattern. I found a few years ago. These things are up there eating crayfish and I'm I'm doing some funky bassy stuff. You know.
Speaker
Yeah, right.
Steven:
Something that's I've said it. Frickin you can catch Muskies on cinco's pretty Dang well you know it just works. Most people are just not doing it. Scott S recent musky convert coming from the largemouth world. A favorite method for Bastion. This literally it may be the. Is this the same dude? Surely not.
Jaybird:
Different name.
Steven:
What was the guy's name?
Jaybird:
Zach was both previous one.
Steven:
Yeah, Zach, you got a twinsie over here. That's too weird. Yeah. Different different IP address, different guy. That's funny if you ever use, he's a.
Jaybird:
Same question, OK.
Steven:
Have you ever have either of you utilized a beefed up bass jig as a method for muskie? Scoured YouTube and there are only a handful of videos. In this fashion, love to hear your. Well, listen. About 7 seconds ago.
Jaybird:
She'd be very cool.
Steven:
That's that's funny. They were just back-to-back. Nice. Oh, man. Dylan Curtis. What makes you so passionate about musky fishing? Jay, is it the health insurance, a place to go during the day? What is it?
Jaybird:
What's for me to go to work? I don't know what it is.
Steven:
Sanity man sanity.
Speaker
I.
Steven:
Michael Love the show much listening. Question regarding Pacific. Feel free to spot burn if you want. We're not going to. Already done it.
Jaybird:
Every spot burn.
Steven:
Just just burning up when like. Going up to his leg, take a week with a family mid-july. They've always done well and fair for anything. After 20 years of not going to return this year. In the second week of August had a big cold front. Hit Low was near. Yeah, that was a nasty cold front. North, we do fish a. Bit hold on. So we do fish a little. Best to cut way less in 0 Pike in recent. Interesting. Interesting enough, I found a DNR report on numbers based on Fishman surveys and see the difference from numbers in this lake in 20 or 2002 versus 2022 dropped drastically. Curious if during a 20 year hiatus something happened or change this lake from listing and learning from you guys since that trip. Gut tells me maybe I spent too much time fishing areas and patterns. Accustomed to for the month of July and Justin so without burning this lake because it's pretty popular up where your eyes is at. I, Mike, what has happened to the? You're asking about it got popular, and it was a very, very hit up by guides and muskie anglers hard. Alright.
Jaybird:
Yeah, I'm not looking at your question, but I'm pretty sure together. I know which direction yet.
Steven:
So you're not yet it. It stands down 70. Yeah, that.
Jaybird:
Uh.
Steven:
Yeah, just got the numbers are down because it got the the crap kicked out of it, that's why. So it, you know, makes, yeah.
Jaybird:
Yeah, there's a lot of factors that contribute. All these small lakes in in the area where I live, I live some of the counties in northern.
Steven:
Uh huh. You hate to.
Jaybird:
I mean. Some lakes get speared really hard, you. Sometimes they'll spew a 30 or 40 mature muskies out of their in the winter. It's like couple that with in trans pressure from guides. Couple that from perhaps that lake hasn't been stocked for 10 years or 20 years.
Steven:
Yeah, and. And you know, it'll it'll hit you anyway.
Jaybird:
So you know.
Steven:
Here's how we're going to do this. We've rattled on forever. There are so many freaking questions. What I'm going to do is I'm going to just give Jay the price. Now here's what I'm.
Speaker
Yeah.
Steven:
Little I have my eyes closed. Is no. And I have I've, you know, the little rolly thing in the middle of your mouse 'cause. My. I promise you, there's like 200 questions we'd even answer. So it's not. If we answered your question or if you made us laugh, doesn't matter immaterial. Right. And we're going to do. Next week. So if you didn't win this week and you still, whether you, if you got a good question or what, just send in a freaking question. I'm having fun with. We'll give away some more of Steve Stash. I'm literally. I have my eyes. I'm just spinning that little Dang thing in the middle. The mouse. And Jay, count it down and then you tell me to stop and I will. I will tell. What? Whatever the cursor is on here.
Jaybird:
OK. Are you ready? Yes, 321 stops. What do you got?
Steven:
I got it. Ready.
Jaybird:
Hit me.
Steven:
Greg B. Right. D crash core. There you go buddy. I know which I actually I think we've answered this question. Didn't know that, but Greg B shoot me an e-mail with your address. Were the first winner of Steve Stash. Well, I will get that in the mail to. Here we'll box up whatever. Whatever I find under my desk. Teasing. I'll get you some cool stuff out there, guys. Your questions. That is always fun to have that many. We have plenty for next week, but get them in there. I said that's always fun. We'll hit. Anyway, Jaybird say goodnight. Goodnight Sir.
Jaybird:
Thanks guys.
Speaker
I.
Speaker 1
You.
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