Musky 360 Podcast Episode 235: Joe Bucher and More Explore Early Season Muskies
Podcast Transcript
Steven:
Alright folks, welcome to the Muskie 360 podcast to Jay: Bird.
Jay:
Hi, Steve.
Kreger:
What are you?
Steven:
Doing playing man. I'm just sitting here, you know, trying to soak in it. I'm soaking up the freaking limp Elmer
Jay:
That was great, wasn't?
Steven:
It you know, someday everybody's going when I get my mom for Mother's Day, what do I? Do. What do I do? That's the. Gift that keeps on giving, Jay:.
Jay:
Right. You can listen to it over and over and over. It's over and over
Steven:
Years of pleasure.
Jay:
Yes. And on that compilation.
Steven:
For sure.
Jay:
The greatest gift you gift you can give your mother. I mean, come on.
Steven:
Ohh that was new name they say.
Jay:
Norma's a great sport.
Steven:
Elmer is hates. Me. It's all good. Anyway, my dudes, my dudes, my dudes. Very shortly. I I made some phone calls this week trying to get ahead of things called Bucher called Josh Kreger and called Jim Stewart. We're going to roll some of those here very shortly, but they the sales roll on Jay:.
Steven:
Yeah. Yup, Yup, Yup. Yup.
Steven:
Yeah, you got the the hoodie sale, 25 bucks on that. I talked to Jim. Mepps, What's going on with the Mepps, Jay:, we've talked about a little bit where Mepps are not like discounted maps, proper has been chipping in and going, hey, let's do some stuff.
Jay:
Yeah, yeah, it's it's giant killers. Tandem giant killers and all the entire family of the Mepps. #5 Aglias, which are extremely popular early season, and they're 15% off, so that's running. For another couple weeks.
Steven:
Is it running with the devil J? Anyway, that's going on. You got the cranes showed up. I mean, we're basically in full swing. We're hours away, if you will. You could count it down an hours to muskie opener above Hwy. 10. So, it's going to be going on here. Jay:, what are you seeing? He went on the boat today. What's going on? My dude?
Jay:
Yeah. Went on for a while this morning before thunderstorms hit, so it was pretty good just Catching pike. Couldn't get in small mouth where I was going but. Water's really high. We've gotten a lot of rain lately and water temps are in the 50s. So.
Jay:
There you have it.
Steven:
What were you reading? What was this? The? Superficial surface temp.
Jay:
Like 58.
Steven:
That's not bad, really. I mean. It it.
Jay:
In that was in the morning. It was a warm day. It was the warmest day for the last week and was sunny until the storm set at like 3:00 this afternoon. So, we got some good warming in there, but. Yeah, I didn't stay out long enough.
Steven:
Were you? Were you looking for a long, cold muskie by chance?
Jay:
No, we'll just gas station primarily.
Steven:
Come on, Jay:. Yeehaw yeehaw anyway, so Jaybird said 58. What what else is going on Freddy?
Steven:
Hey, yeah.
Jay:
We have our $25 hoodie sale going on.
Steven:
We just said that, yeah.
Jay:
And we've got Shimano Skixx $150.00 off.
Steven:
Well, there you. Go. Heck of a.
Jay:
Great ride, top end, best muskie rod Shimano ever. No old main miles $150.00 off. You can't get in this week.
Steven:
You're wrong there.
Jay:
We got in. We finally got in the Bobby Bait creepers and creeping hogs. Really. Yeah. He painted up a bunch of those for us. It's kind of one Man, deal now. What else do we get in? Got some new Bucktails in.
Steven:
What?
Jay:
Sorry, I'll put it down.
Steven:
It's, it's that kind of day. OK. Right. You know, you just just don't ship.
Jay:
Did you? Did you see these new Smith Lures we got in with huge modified Willow woods? Yeah. These things are crazy.
Steven:
Let me let me get focused here. Let me. Get focused. Sorry. Focus, Focus, focus, focus.
Jay:
Aye deos mejo.
Steven:
OK, so Smith Lures. They're the giant blade.
Jay:
Single and double.
Steven:
I think you did it. I think you did a short on.
Jay:
Those didn't you? I did a short. Yeah, on both of them. I put the little nasty out. There's a single. Blade one out so.
Steven:
Why not Smitty Smith?
Jay:
Vibration, right, correct. Smith floors. Jim's met him. I have not.
Steven:
Got the big?
Jay:
Small manufacture making some.
Jay:
Big old blade.
Jay:
With the blade that's not on anything else that's in the shop. So, it's it's got its own kind of thing going.
Steven:
Yeah, that's a giganto blade. Very cold. Sorry. Sorry for the the.
Jay:
Thing going.
Steven:
Having that today.
Jay:
That's that's the new stuff this week, and the new sales.
Steven:
Fantastic.
Jay:
So yeah, cool.
Steven:
Stuff. Well, you know what, Jay:, why don't we shut up? Why don't we move on? It's time.
Jay:
And and let the boys do the talkin’.
Steven:
Talking, Jay:, it's time to move on. It's time to get going.
Jay:
Sorry, moving on up.
Steven:
Up moving on up to the scooter, here comes Joe Bucher’s read on the opener coming up here soon.
Jay:
The east side.
Steven:
Alright guys, I've got the man, the myth, the ultimate legend, Joe Bucher. What's up? Joe.
Bucher:
Hey buddy, looking forward to talking with you about the looks like it's, you know it's it's getting to be serious musky time. I know you get the fish muskies year-round, but now the musky anglers in the north are going to start talking about it too.
Steven:
Well, you know you we've heard it's nothing but the, the, the, the whining and the crying for the last few years laid ice crazy ice seems like this is kind of early. Would you would I be wrong on that?
Bucher:
Ohh man, I'll tell you what you know it's. A complete opposite site. They should really mild winter, early ice out. But it's just completely different.
Steven:
Well, and last year, like I said, I'm teasing, but I I get it, where everybody was humdrum. I mean, that was brutal. Last year was brutal in the Northwoods. One of the worst on record. So of course you're going to be bummed about it. When, when, when you have this kind of early ice out or or or, you know, a better scenario. What what? You guys be looking at cause so, so many years everybody's been late ice, late ice, late ice. What what's the book or playbook for possibly muskies that are done spawning or recuperating opener weekend there above Hwy. 10.
Bucher:
Well, you know what's interesting is Steve is is you know you you get you you just figure it out. If you fish you, you fish your muskies if you just if you fish along a long enough time you realize that boy every year is different every you know and and about the time you think oh it's global warming. This is, you know, the ice age is just coming back. It's like, no, I mean last year and this year are like you completely different planets you know, so this year I tell you, I tell you what, I think anglers overlook.
No matter whether it's a late ice. Out or an early ice out is what happens. You know what, what kind of weather have you got around the opener? Right. Yeah. So, if if if you know it's the way it's building the you know, we're going to get the really nice weather right before the opener and that's that. That's great news for everybody. I think it's going to be an outstanding Opener for, you know, Northern Wisconsin, mid to northern Wisconsin guys and and you know I. I think I think it's. Yeah, I I think you know it's it's the weather's just the weather's setting up for a perfect opener and when you get nice weather, you get a warming trend. You're gonna have a lot of shallow fish. And so, I I'm excited about that. I think that's. You know, a lot of times when you got a lot of cold weather in the spring, you know you're really searching and you're really trying to make things work when it's. It's tough, but when you get a a spring like this where you got warming water. Guys, you're gonna Catch for some spinners and spinner baits and it's small jerkbaits yourself and I I tell you you know I I kind of sing the same tune every spring. It's like what I do is seek out baitfish warm water. Shallow water, warm water. You know, shallow water, warm water and bait fish and and you know, I think that that and I wouldn't even necessarily when it comes to Muskies I wouldn't necessarily say cover but you know shallow water bait fish and warming water find the warmer water in the lake and you got and and.
Steven:
Right. Right.
Joe Bucher:
You see bait fish. Around you see croppies and baths in the shadows. You're in musky water. You you know. And and then it's just like anything we do. Whether you're working on your house or you're out there fishing, you know, just gotta pick the right tool for the job. And when you're fishing that real shallow water, I mean, it's pretty tough to beat just running and gunning hot, fast and there's, you know, shallow, shallow spinners like a 500.
Steven:
Right.
Bucher:
But I my one of my favorite things to do in the spring is for spinner baits in reeds. Yeah and and the the you know this Reed thing. You know that we get up there and a lot of our Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan lakes where you get these big sand flats with bull rushes and reeds and a lot of times this time of year they're dead. You know, they got that they got that brown pencil kind of look, but they still hold everything. They hold minnows, they hold crappies, they're the minerals and crappies they hold muskies, right?
Steven:
Right.
Bucher:
And and Spinner bait it's tough to you know tough to beat spinner baits. And that's it's just you.
Steven:
Absolutely
Bucher:
Know it's trouble. Hooks are can be a. Be a problem on on on. These spinner or Reed waters, but man, they are just tailor made for spinner. And you know, that's where when you're fishing a bigger spinner bait, like a slot master or musky, spinnerbait or even big bass spinner baits. Just get get ready because I think that's one of the best things you can do in the spring.
Steven:
Let me let me ask you this because for years we always kind of touch base this time of year like you know what's Joe's thoughts and it's been for a lot of years kind of the late ice out and all this. Yeah. So, say, say you're say, Joe Bucher’s gearing up, you're ready to rip and roll. The the nomenclature has been get on shallow stained warmer water. Are you willing to swing the bat on it for for say bigger water clearer water for bigger fish with it being early ice out is that a? Is it a kind of a paradigm shift this year with the early ice out where? Some of these bigger, clearer bodies of water are worth the time. If you're truly hunting a giant.
Steven:
Yes. Yes, yes, the answer is yes. You know, this opens up that other playbook.
Steven:
Which again for years hasn't been available, yeah.
Steven:
Yeah. Right, right. You know, it's it's generally in those big, deep clear lakes, you know, they're they're they're ice bowls, you know, they they take a while to warm up. And and the walleye guys, you know, tend to catch more, you know, stumble on a musky or two here and there. But musky guys really struggle. But when you get this warming trend that's going to play and play really well and. And. Again, a lot of these, even these gin clear lakes, Steve, they have the like for example up by us, North Twin. Mm-hmm. North Twin Trout lake over in Boulder Junction has some bull rushes. Reeds. Yeah. And that's what I look for. Another thing that's can that another sleeper 2 sleepers just sunny. Sun-baked sand flats, some baked, said some play any place. Here's the thing, all all of your your loyal listeners. You know, son, solar bake.
Steven:
Yeah.
Bucher:
Yeah. You know, fish areas that are solar baked that are, you know, if you got a water temperature gauge on your boat, which most guys do right on their sonar units today be watching for that, you pull into the spot and you see, you know, you know, the rest of the lake is like, you know, 55 58 maybe, you know, maybe maybe creeping 60 and. Listen, you pull up into these nice sunbaked showers when you got mid 60° water. Oh boy. You know, grab onto your ride tight because you're you're gonna. You're gonna you're gonna probably be into some fish and but the the now you take away the bull rushes like we're just talking about take away the bushes these sunbaked sand flats.
Steven:
Right.
Bucher:
You know, then that opens up the playbook and you know the toolbox so you can fish with a lot more lures and and. And one of the things that a lot of the guys that you know not a lot of guys but but these really a couple these guys in the know really catch fish on the spring. Are these jigging creature baits swimming paddle tails you know big musky sized. Pattle tails, big oversized bass tattle tails swim Jakes bass swim, Jakes with white on the wire leader catch them in the spring and that kind of water so that that's a that's a really good pattern. One more that's worth worth thinking about. Especially in flowages, are these real shallow sunbaked stump flats?
Steven:
Hmm.
Bucher:
So, you know the problem with Stump Flats is you know you hook into a big fish. And you, you know it's it's it's.
Jay:
You're you're in a stump flat.
Bucher:
Yeah, you. It's gonna be you got your hands full. So, you know. And and and again, once you start once she start talking cover like stumps and bull rushes like. You limit your. You limit your, your your lure style, so you'll spinner basically become one of the big weapons. But you know those are anything you're looking for warm. You're looking for bait fish, you know. And sunbaked areas that's why you know that's another thing I concentrate the majority of my time. In the spring after lunch.
Steven:
Ohh yeah, you could. Yeah, it's a great time to be lazy.
Bucher:
Yeah, I'm not in early morning, guys. I just got off The water here, you know and. You know, I get all my chores and stuff done around here. It's like, you know, it's in the low, low to mid 40s and then, you know, by lunch time it's cracking 55. You know, it's 60° and you know, by 1:00 in the afternoon, it's pushing 65 to 70° and that's when minerals and stuff get cranked up in the shallows. And that's when the game fish start to feed that. At 2:00 till about 5:30 6:00 in the afternoon, it's usually the best time in the spring.
Steven:
Same same for me down here.
Speaker 2
A lot of us, you Know early morning they're they're these early birds and they're already putting their boats in the trailer before. The fishing gets.
Steven:
Yeah, they're they're not biting. They're. Moving which is I. You know, I I'm sure you did it back in there. You freaked clients out that that early season. You know when when we meeting. Noon that what what we're are we fishing the whole thing. Yeah, you know what we.
Bucher:
Should do you know what what I used to do a lot my old guide days is is I'd, I'd. I'd. I'd I'd go up. We do a walleye, walleye. Crappie . Like. Pike thing in the morning. Let's let's custom fish for the live roll. Let's you know. Let's let's catch something to eat. So, you guys go home with some fillets and says, and then let's go have some lunch and then then we'll. Go out throw for muskies and that's a good that that by the way, even even for the listeners that want, you know, to mix it up in the spring, you know they're more if you get out in the morning. You throwing small stuff, you know, banging away for bass and Pike in the shallows and whatnot. And when you could you catch your. Muscle of course. You. Yeah, but. But you know, the time to get serious is when you want to. Take the jacket off.
Steven:
Absolutely they they slump. They kind of slump up with that. Let me ask you this because it it it it typically. You went through that era where you couldn't troll in Wisconsin and things that and what did that overlap? Just as your curiosity I was is coming out of my mouth. Like in your guiding curve was was it? Did they allow trolling before your guiding or was it in the midst of your guiding career? When did that that change happen?
Bucher:
It never it didn't change out until I. Was already out of it.
Steven:
Gotcha. And then your your your post guy, I I never knew that so. I'm wondering because a very southern thing that we do, let's say you get out and you're just gotta grind, you know, these big flats cause I deal with it with extensive old weed flats or extensive stump fields, flat line trolling, small blades that basically trolling motor speeds, you know?
Bucher:
Yeah. Ohh that's you know what? That's that, that could be, you know, and The thing is is here. You know, a lot of you know that that it's not that I didn't do that stuff years ago, since you couldn't do it on on, you know, Vilas and Oneida county lakes.
Steven:
Right.
Bucher:
You went to the north western side of the state, you could right and and you get South of Hwy. 10. A lot of those lakes you could so, but yeah. Oh, yeah.
Steven:
Right.
Bucher:
Trolling trolling is always, you know, should always be considered, and especially when you're when you're trying to cover large, expensive, absolutely, absolutely everything too. Even if Steve, that another bait that's probably overlooked in that in that Situation. Are these real shallow, real shallow running, floating diving crank bits?
Steven:
Mm-hmm. Absolutely.
Steven:
You know.
Steven:
I mean, shallow Raider baby, shallow Raiders caught scuds of fish for me. Like where? Well, there's that. You know they're they're three feet or shallow. Let's let's tippy tapping up there and. You know, just just bang, bang, let her hang.
Bucher:
Well, I'll tell you, buddy. You know, there's there's a lot of patterns out there that come into play when you get a nice, nice spring like this. So I I think overall, I think I see, you know, summarily as we as we look at this opener, it's going, I think it's going to be a good one and I think we covered a lot of different things that guys should try out there. And you know, I I guess I would leave the guys with one more thing you know and and and just as a reminder. You know, make sure you you know you don't start too early. And quit too. Early. You know the later in the day you let that water warm, certain days even on your trips. You know that if if that that one day or that one part of of the of your trip where you're gonna have the warmest weather, you're gonna have the warmest water, you're gonna have the best solar penetration you probably have. Your best bite?
Steven:
Absolutely, absolutely. And keep keep, keep it generally small. You think even on the big fish water.
Bucher:
You know that's that's that's an interesting question. That's was my, that's what my YouTube show is all about this week is when you go big, when you go small and you know in the spring generally we catch them on small baits. But other exceptions absolutely there always are.
Steven:
Well, boys, that's called a pro setup is what that was right there. And when when you've been? Doing as long as me and Joe, that's called a pro setup, so make sure to watch Joe's season opener tactics open. Sorry, Joe. That was that was like just for yeah.
Bucher:
Well, you and I are two years old. A few years ago, we. Yeah. Years ago. Yeah. Remember that episode we that that was a pro move.
Steven:
Pro move. You get the pro folks for just 19.95 a week. You can own the Choppa matic here. Jay:, what are you thinking about Buch daddy sage like a vice.
Jay:
The Buch speaks and the volumes listen goodness. What he's talking about?
Steven:
I can't go wrong with you. Get the 500. What's going on with the Bucher?
Jay:
He's a legend.
Steven:
Line this year.
Jay:
Buddy, what is going on with the book? Like they've been introducing some new custom colors here and there, popping in like.
Jay:
Hi.
Jay:
Hot perch. Wonder bread. We got that 855 spinner bait, new spinner bait. Right. We're working on new colors we're working on. New customs as well.
Steven:
Can't go wrong with the Bucher stuff. You know who's kind of a hot stick, Jay:? I hate that word.Hot stick hot stick.
Steven:
Up in the Northwoods? Josh Kreger.
Jay:
Oh Yeah Joshy.
Steven:
He's coming out swinging this year. He's been doing the the guiding thing he's got what the northwards Muskie report coming out. I think every Thursday. So, he's going to try it by Thursday morning. If you're driving up, we talk to him here for a second. Let's let her rip. Sup, my dudes. Josh Kreger. What up, Josh?
Steven:
- So.
Kreger:
Hey, how's it going, Steve?
Steven:
Oh my goodness. We're super excited. Not really. But it's we're here and I'm and I'm just messing with it. So, Josh, you are fired up. You're ready to rock'n'roll for the Northwoods fishing report, I believe. What's going on with that, my man?
Kreger:
Absolutely super excited. We're going to start that again. This we're going to start that again this year. We're going to start it the weekend of Memorial Day weekend. They're open. So, it'll be out for everyone, you know, to listen to on Thursday, Friday their way up, we'll put it out, you know, so by Thursday morning. So, and yeah, we're just going to touch base on again water temps like we did last year. Kind of some of the stained water. Clearwater. What's working? You know, as far as catching fish, obviously for opener, we're not targeting them yet, so. So, I won't have a report of what's worked. You know, I. Yeah, I'll. I'll talk about, you know, what I would expect based on water temperatures and what I'm seeing, you know.
Steven:
What did the walleye guys, get them on.
Jay:
On the water.
Kreger:
But right, yeah. Yeah, so. We've had that going on, you know, I'm gonna get a little more scientific even this year. I'm going to even include some barometric pressures and some of my reports, you know.
Steven:
We got the moon phase. Yep.
Kreger:
Based on, yeah, obviously the mean phase. You have like last year as well. Yeah, just really excited, you know, looking forward to the season coming up and and hopefully helping some people catch some fish again. You know, I had people contact me in boat landings last year and also at the bash obviously and tell stories about how they had success using some of the methods and tactics I had mentioned. So that was really, really cool. And and that's what we're doing it for, so.
Steven:
That's what there it is, baby. So, you know, you get the moon phase, you get that. And a lot of people don't realize. Josh, you use the app. It's when you look at central on the musky 360 app, it's set right there to Eagle River. You add, you add a little bit minus. Little bit, yeah. People ask about the moon phase on the app, you know, it doesn't pin where exactly where we're at, but it's a really good thing when you don't have signal. That's the point. So, if you've opened it up before and you're sitting in the middle of Suckatoebin with no bars, guess what you got on 360. You know, you can get far more in depth.
Right.
Steven:
But it's a really good thing to have there, like as far as like Canada, I'm sitting on Eagle or somewhere around Dryden, Kanora in that neighborhood. But not often. Do you have signal all the time? So, Josh, you kind of speed that out like and I think it's important. I think it's cool what you do on the show last year and this year. Like I said last last year ran a tech stuff. What a lot of people don't realize is Josh was on top of it. Don't kick him in the stuff they were running new Internet lines out towards your house. So basically, he didn't have Wi-Fi for what, two months or something. It was just a pain. So, he's all over top of it now, but I think it's important to have that because you can kind of plan your day. So, if you're say you're driving up to the North woods, you're up there already, you know, Wednesday night, Thursday morning, where you're checking out the report you know what's the game plan for the next morning? You know? And and that's super important. Josh, you you, you kind of bounce around. Clear stain water. Obviously Bucher was just on the show a few minutes ago talking about his game plan in, in, in one thing that Joe obviously Josh didn't hear that because it's prerecorded. This is not live, by the way, folks. Josh, this this is not live, is it? No, no, it's not. But or is it look in your back seat. There's me and Josh Kreger happening right behind you. But you know, Bucher said there. You know, there's kind of this thing where some of these big, clear bodies of water, it's a different, different year where things can happen. I, you know, I kind of joked with him about how everybody's like. Complaining about late ice, late ice, late ice. It's early ice. What are you thinking, Kreger? What's your game plan? What's your brain at? Just just give me the rundown. I'll shut up. What's going on right now? What's gonna rock'n'roll?
Kreger:
It has been very, very interesting because yes, there was early ice out and then kind of cool temperatures. You know, I was obviously checking the water like I always do as as soon as I really have the opportunity and I have pictures of, you know, three muskies together in April. Yeah. Yeah, that was crazy. And then. It was like April. 15th or something and then at the same time. You know, we got a cold snap, didn't see 'em again for a long time. The perch moved in and spawned. And then the walleye, like, were two weeks almost behind the perch, you know, from what I was seeing. And obviously that varies. You know what you're looking at again, a lot of what I'm targeting, especially this time of the year is. Is the Eagle River? And it's shallower, it's stained. It tends to warm a little quicker and it has, you know river current moving, moving through it. And so, the fish out there tend to act more like river fish and they, you know will run off and off the river and stuff. So, they're very easy to kind of track and and find and see. So, it's very easy to kind of get that information as to what's going on and what species are doing what. You know, at what point. In the season. Right. So, I haven't really seen a whole lot of Muskies paired up. I've seen 'em cruising shallows, you know, on sand and stuff warming up right now. But I have not seen them paired up. Literally since like April.
Steven:
So, do you think like her last week? Herbeck said he thought they were done. What do you think?
Kreger:
I don't think so because a lot of these fish, these solo cruisers I'm seeing in the shallows, they're not beat up at all and and they're like 35 36 inch, like assumably males. So, they should be beat up, you know.
Steven:
Just just to run counter to everybody, which is kind of strange, right? Prepare yourself for me and you have it, Josh. Believe it or not, Josh does you do a lot of early season stuff and you actually do some docks and lifts and you've been doing that forever. He's kind of expert on on that and you know you've been, you've been on the water and in the water. Yeah. And, you know, I've been and you've been down here and.
Kreger:
Season literally since the first week in April. So that was something wild too, that I had the opportunity again with doing docks and lifts. It's a seasonal thing and I get to go to a lot of different lakes. I'm seeing the water temperature and all these. So, it's a cool opportunity. You know obviously and and working still during the off season, but I was out on one of These lakes up here and. The other day we were installing a new dock wearing like 60 to water and I. Where there is a huge school of trout. Now this lake is known for trout, right? But there's a huge school of trout that come up and one comes up to the surface and eats a bug in like 6 feet of water, like right next to us when we're installing the dock. And I'm like, oh, my God. Like, that was really cool. You know, there's not a lot of lakes that have trout up here. Let's see it in six feet of water like.
Steven:
Just come up. Well, what I've what I've seen is this. And it's like, you know, a lot of people think. And again, it's it's worth the conversation. You know I'm. I'm at the absolute southern end of the habitat range and I've cut prespawn fish that have dropped eggs in the boat. Not the goal, right? I don't want fish dropping eggs in the boat. I've caught post spawn fish that look, they've gone through a wood chipper.
Steven:
I had a fish and again I don't know the stage of musky eggs, but I know when musky eggs are like kind of all the way mature, they're like this complete yellow deal, right? Had a fish this week it. Had eggs that were like smaller than a pinhead, and kind of like a a clear gelatinous state that it dropped on the boat and like, OK, what do I do? You know what I'm saying? I'm like, OK, pre spawn, post spawn not spawned yet, like every stage in between. We're.
Kreger:
Yeah, right. Missed the spawn, just didn't drop I.
Steven:
What? What's going to happen? It's just like with what you've seen in some of the pictures in the conversation you've we've had and you've been from the day they could get a boat on the water docks and lifts start. Which is interesting because you've seen a lot of different things, so you know a lot of guys are like, OK, it's going to be, it's going to be postponed entirely. What? Let me ask you that with with what you think and it's all everybody has a different read, different bodies of water. Where are you starting out day one as far as your game plan? First move.
Kreger:
I mean, typically the game plan always for opener is shallow water. You know, staying typically it warms faster. The fish should be ahead, you know in their cycle. Of you know some of the. Fish in the deep clear waters. Right, I'm, you know, often fishing, shallow water, looking for the warmest water I can find. And you know, a lot of times if there's.
Steven:
Yeah, that's that's pretty common, yeah.
Kreger:
You know crappie spawning which again sometimes happens you know; Mother's Day weekend sometimes happens Memorial Day weekend. You never know if it's happening you know around must be opener. I'm fishing areas that I. Know the crappie are spawning.
Steven:
Let me ask you this how do we know again? And you taught me one thing. That Josh Krueger. Me crappies look like a Christmas tree on your graph. That's something I appreciated for eons. How do you find? How do you find spawning crappie?
Kreger:
So yeah, what you're kind of referring to when you're talking about what they look like on the locator, those are, yeah, typically suspended fish that they stack vertically, right. And when they're spawning, they go shallow And a lot of times they're on the wood. So, like on the Eagle River chain, you know, even in the same water, I'm fishing wood on the shoreline. I've also seen them on Suckatoebin right up the Rd. from my house, which is fairly clear and deep and cold. You know, I've seen them spawning in early June and sitting. Literally in like 2 feet of water on sand.
Steven:
Right.
Kreger:
You know, so again, everybody’s water is a little different and that's why, you know, this time of the year, I'm typically focusing on shallow stained bodies of water that are going to be. Warmer.
Steven:
Right. But because no matter what, whether it's an early ice, late ice, whatever it might happen, I mean, that's The thing is cause like everything's gonna vary water influx thing that nature. You know it's it's the old beat-up trope. Smaller presentation things of that nature how big. Big. You know modern. You're a modern muskie guide. You know we're all swinging for the fences. How big are you willing to go where you're going like this is the absolute top of what I'm willing to throw in the first two weeks. What's the biggest you’ll throw?
Kreger:
I guess you know. No, no, I mean there is a lot of small bucktails. Typically, I will throw top water and that's the one outlier cause. If I throw a walk, the dog top water, I'll throw a little bit bigger one. Yeah, but typically you know, anything straight in line retrieve Smaller, you know, Twitch baits and glide baits, you know 6 5 6 maybe 7 inches.
Steven:
That's kind of, yeah, yeah. That could be about the top out for sure.
Kreger:
I mean, and honestly, like I've I've caught 20 not this season by any means, but in the past, like when I've had more time, you know the law and bass fish, I've caught plenty of muskies in the. Spring on bass baits. Yeah, and that. You know, a lot of times. Well. Carry over into Muskie opener. You know I know Husky jerks. Fourteens are wonderful. You know, this time of the year.
Steven:
Yeah.
Steven:
Dude, that's one thing. It kind of that off tactic where? And I think a lot of guys just don't want to do it, but I've done really well with just a like a crappy spinning comp, not crappy, crappy right. Crappy. Like this is a piece of crap. Spinning company, the Walmart special. We got it right.
Kreger:
But Walmart, kind of, yeah. I'm I'm not trying to insult anyone though.
Steven:
If you, Mr. Walmart, we're sorry, you know, but you got the rod. You don't care if you break it. 15 LB. Like Braid with a straight wire leader and you just get gunked on. You know the Husky jerk or something of that nature as far as, like, straight out now. Current tactics. Obviously smaller blades, things of that nature. Are you worried about your gear ratio? What's going on speed wise?
Steven:
Slow. Typically, I'm trying to work things slow. You know my glide, Bates, my twitch Bates, my dive and rise. I'm, you know, giving them good pauses. Typically, the longer that they kind of suspend, the better. You know, I'm. I'm trying to get something that's not rising super-fast or falling super-fast. I wanted to kind of, you know, sit in probably the one-to-four-foot range most of the time.
Steven:
In any rubber?
Kreger:
I will throw rubber sometimes for reaction strikes. If it's a really tough bite, you know kind of rip. Them through the. Weeds, but I prefer to try the other tactics first. It's much easier, yeah.
Steven:
Right, right. Yeah, it's not, it's not like this is not for the 1st 30 minutes of the trip. That's the guy that's the like, modern guide brain of like. All right. Well, we're ripping rubber now. You know well, us fails.
Kreger:
I mean, there are there are days when I go out there like knowing it's like, OK.
Speaker 2
You know, I know I'm.
Kreger:
Fishing deep. I'm ripping rubber today, but I prefer not to have to rip through shallow weeds with rubber baits. I will.
Steven:
I will say so.
Kreger:
But it's not my favorite.
Steven:
You know, you guide very similar to I did the way I do knows of the boat perfect boat control. If you can things of that nature. How do you do the first few weeks on that lateral cast on the outside edge.
Kreger:
Honestly, like there's times. I'm not even necessarily fishing an outside edge, right?
Steven:
I mean I.
Kreger:
I hear you like a lot of times. I'm. I'm pounding the shallow weeds and stuff, but.
Steven:
Kind of that, that, that, that. Yeah. Yeah, you, you you kind of go throw over there guys you make that that longer edge are you like I'm just asking conditionally do you
Kreger:
Honestly. Most of the time I'm I'm taking my time picking apart and I'm casting like shallower than most people and going over the top of the weeds, you know, obviously it's more difficult than casting the edge, but this time of the year, like everything is pushed up and as warm water as possible and most of the time you know that that means fishing. Over the top of the weeds, instead of on the outside edge. You know, and The funny thing is, normally in the summer middle of the day, hottest part of the day, the first move out and right now a lot of times they're warming up, you know.
Steven:
Right. They're moving in and me and Bucher are talking about. I mean, it's the typical thing early season. Don't get out of bed early. Don't get out. The warmest part of the day, right. The shallow part of the day that that seems to be, I mean, that translates for me. I know it works for you. So, let's say, you know, you fish are chain.
Kreger:
Actually, moving so.
Steven:
That's yeah.
Steven:
Yep, how willing. Are fish. How like is the temperature difference, say in some of the Portage is important or or or fish willing to move like say where say it's a 3-lake chain right? Like 123, how willing are they to move? I mean, do you think spawning ground like what do you think like do you get the question when I'm asking to explain where like on a chain of lakes is why would one lake be more important? What how do we go? This is the lake on the chain. We need to look at.
Kreger:
I mean, ideally I'm looking at the lakes that are the closest to the dam. You know, these fish, I do that are running upstream to spawn. Yeah. So, at the end of the day in my head, that means the majority of the fish have migrated to, you know, normally it's the north. Side, however, on the Eagle River 3 lakes training, it's muted because yeah, right.
Steven:
Right the up, not the downstream dam. The upstream dam, yeah.
Kreger:
Right. Yeah. You know you want. To make sure you're going upstream. 95% of the time, that's. North. But like I said. Not always so right? But yeah, I'm. Trying to get a start upstream as I can. You know when I'm getting these photos of these fish? It is as far off as I can.
Jay:
Get so yeah.
Steven:
Yeah.
Steven:
Which which always makes you think about my hillbilly stuff. The Licking River in Kentucky runs N Josh.
Steven:
Yeah.
Steven:
That's painful. Like what? What though? Like, I think the Nile. And I think the Nile and the Licking River like.
Kreger:
Yeah, that's. No, that, that, that's what I'm saying. The Eagle River does as well because the three lakes chain is actually S, but it is above the dam. And the Eagle River chain is north and it. Is below the. Dam. That that's what I'm saying. It is one of very, very few places where you will find that, you know, normally you're heading north to find the dam or you know upstream. But in this situation, you're actually heading South.
Steven:
Yeah, different ball game there for sure. So, you know it's so that that the flowage of that, what do you think watercolor? I mean, I'm not saying just particularly your thing like. The general in the spawn because like I think it's important and the reason I mentioned you did look docks and lifts during the early season and all the it's obviously profitable but. You're out on the water so early, right? And seeing like and guys, if you don't do. OK, so docks and lift just to explain.
Steven:
Oh yeah, yeah.
Steven:
I mean up north as people have to take their boat, dock out, store it these guys remove and then install the 2nd that they can. Would they get around it, Josh? In some capacity, right. So, when the ice is off, there's a billion docks to put in and these guys have to do it. And Josh has done this for years. He's a kind of expert on it and so.
Steven:
Yes. Yeah, yes.
Steven:
You're seeing clear you're seeing every kind of body water.
Kreger:
Ohh deep shallow I mean 90 feet deep to 6-foot Max. You know? Yeah.
Steven:
Yeah. Where I remember a couple years ago, you had. What was it like? You had like a 45 swim between your legs. Remember that. And like, you're like, what the it's like freaking, you know, T Rex just bumped your shin and it freaks you out and it's like, whoa, whoa, where? Yeah, like, yeah, well, yeah.
Kreger:
Yeah, it's it's pretty wild. I mean, it's not uncommon to see Muskies, you know, quite quite often while we're doing our job, yeah.
Steven:
Freezing right after that. Stop. Yeah, right after. The ice is out. Say a guys relegated to Josh. You know they got the family cabin or whatever it is. We're we're we're on. Primarily clear water.
Speaker
Steven:
What's the game plan? You got to do Clearwater or the other thing is a client says hey, which happens to you all the time. Guide me over here.
Steven:
Yeah. Yes.
Steven:
Clear, moderate. Moderate to Clearwater. What's the game plan early season for?
Kreger:
Again, I'm I'm searching for the one on this water in the lake in general and then looking for, you know, bait fish. Also, if there are any Creek malls or, you know, rivers, anything flowing, you know, kind of in there. I'm checking by the mouth of that, you know again.
Steven:
Right.
Steven:
Yeah.
Kreger:
Process are either pre spawn you know or post spawn. They should be around the mouth if they haven't run up to spawn you know and they they even could be still by the mouth two spawn depending on you. Know river conditions. So, I'm looking for those areas and then a lot of times you know also lead coverage helps a lot too.
Steven:
Yeah.
Kreger:
But at the this point in the season; the weed coverage is definitely a tertiary kind of thought in my mind versus some of. These other factors.
Steven:
Right, right. It's not like, yeah, got it. Got it. If it's there then yeah.
Jay:2
Right. You know, in the summertime, it's like, wait, right. So.
Steven:
So, presentation wise, what what's kind of the rundown on top 3-4 or five, what do you think?
Jay:2
So.
Kreger:
If I if I can take 4 beats with me, I'm taking, you know, a a small bucktail single blade. I, you know, probably either the 500 or 700 series. I do love the bunker tails. I'm not going.
Steven:
Invite us.
Kreger:
To lie. I I throw them a lot, they. Catch a lot of fish.
Steven:
That purple? What are you?
Kreger:
Steve, Steve. Seen it? Great fighting. Yeah, it's money in the stand water. So, I'm definitely, you know, having one of those with me.
Steven:
Great flames.
Kreger:
And I'll probably have a small top water with me most. Likely you know like the.
Steven:
What do you for a fat? Baby. Or I'm not? The fat *******, the little ******* or what? Do you throw for a whopper whopper?
Jay:
Yeah. Yeah, early in the season, yeah.
Kreger:
Yeah, waffle Popper or the little *******. Or like I said, sometimes, you know, I will also throw a side to side walk the dog top water. Typically, there I'm throwing the wiggle. That's just what I have. It's it's.
Steven:
Worth you know.
Steven:
I'm so I'm sorry.
Kreger:
It's not. It is what it is, you know.
Steven:
I'll get you. I'll get you up. I'm teasing. I like it's a good thing. I just. I just give Josh crap. Cause the wiggles are great bait. I'm. I'm like Grandpa with the jackpot. Like. She doesn't die.
Steven:
You gotta have your 6/6 in your jackpot, OK? Continue. There's a joke behind that because one time me like how many years ago. Like, oh, you gotta throw a wig. Like, no, I still have that pickle card. When I was like. No, sorry, but OK, so we go. What else?
Kreger:
And then.
Steven:
So.
Jay:2
Yeah, yeah.
Kreger:
And then you know also some kind of small twitch bait or diving rise, you know?
Steven:
Slammer Bucher, something that neighborhood.
Kreger:
Titan junior with the weight you know, to kind of not have it rise super-fast. Like I said, I I don't want something that's.
Steven:
Yeah. Right.
Kreger:
Moving too fast. I'm. I'm slow presentation and I want something that's not super, you know, buoyant. I want more neutral buoyancy out of my bag right now.
Steven:
Are you Hell Hound or Phantom?
Kreger:
More so Phantom. I've just always kind of thrown them. I do like my soft, squirrely tails. You know as well. I have always grown.
Steven:
So, do the guard down here? That's what I've I've got lit up, Josh, we have. We have, like, flood stage conditions.
Steven:
OK so.
Steven:
Kind of horrible right now.
Kreger:
Jeez. OK.
Steven:
And so guard don't care, right? So, I need a T-shirt that says guard don't.
Steven:
Right, yeah.
Steven:
There no matter how bad it is, guess what? They're they're hitting stuff like in the top 2 feet of the water you're like. And I've gotten rocked like I'm on muskie spots. You know, like it's the kiss of death. If you're catching big largies or smallies off like a good musky spot. Right? And you're. Like.
Steven:
Yeah.
Steven:
Ohh, wearing deep crap down here. It's like gar. And I've I've lost more soft tails this week. He's like, oh, oh, I got rocked. And then you see it and the yeah. It's got 2-foot-long beak, you know, with the Phantom. I. It's funny. Like the northern Wisconsin guys and the Phantom. But it seems to.
Steven:
The six inch Phantom. It's like a minute difference in in running depth versus versus the hell I don't. I had to ask. But so, we so you got the five, so 507 hundred Bucher tail. Wiggle little ********. Yeah, Phantom, you know, is it.
Kreger:
With little *******.
Steven:
Calibrator I I sort of circumvented you there for a second.
Kreger:
Yeah. I mean, baby baby shower Raiders, 6-inch Grandma Titan junior. Like any of those kind of like I said, if I can make them more neutral. And I mean, I understand they're different dates, but essentially, you know, they're covering the same part of the water column, and they're covering the same point for me. So yeah.
Steven:
It does the same thing, yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, just crank them in so. Just to just to annoy you cause I can cause you can't say no.
Steven:
Yeah.
Steven:
So, we know we're fishing shallow water, right? I would say that is a pretty safe bet that Muskies in this temperament are 4 to 0, right? Someone in the four to zero.
Steven:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Steven:
Boat positioning. How Long's your cast are? Do you want to get them? Do you want to get them on the cast or is it more of an 8 thing? What's your thought?
Kreger:
I mean, ideally I'm having them hit further away from the boat. Yeah, it's exciting. When they hit next to the boat, but the actual landing ratio goes down, right?
Steven:
Well, not not the landing thing, more so than it. How many of you getting that 8 early? My 8 loaded question. Yeah. Are they going to eat in the eight? Are they going to eat more on the cast? What's what's your thought on that? As far as not excitement go. Are you adding distance on these shallow flats or are you are you like tightening up with the boat positioning what I'm asking?
Kreger:
I mean, ideally I'm I'm throwing a a pretty good long cast up there. You know, I'm trying to keep the boat as far as I can, you know, with hitting the end. Just my target range.
Steven:
Right, right. So just the the Minnesota bomb, if you will.
Kreger:
Right. I mean, don't get me wrong. Like, yeah, you can convert them, I mean early in the season it has been done, but you know most of the time.
Steven:
Uh.
Kreger:
If they're following, it's it's normally a pretty slow. Excuse me. Slow, lazy follow.
Steven:
That crack will dry your throat out, Josh.
Yeah, too much in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Gotta keep going, you know, dancing with. Yeah.
Steven:
I don't care. That's what happens. That's what happens when your friends doing the podcast with you apologize. So, they I mean, for me. And it's again I. It's like when I'm early season figure, it's kind of like 3070 is why I asked that. So, it sounds like for you, you gotta do you have to have a like a particularly active fish before it's going to eat you think or?
Kreger:
Not necessarily. I mean, some of it's just reading the fish. I mean, I'm going to try to speed my bait up as much as I can, right, you know, but there's that fine line where that fish loses interest or actually, like maybe.
Steven:
Peaks.
Kreger:
You know, and kind of, he's always after it.
Steven:
That that's, you know, that's. Wow. You just said something peak. There's a season. Wow, that's a whole other episode. I'll I will not steal it from, you know, just say it. Live on the show, because this is live. We don't prerecord this. If you tuned in, we're doing it now. There is a speed peak and that is a heck of a subject and you just nailed it and and articulated something. That's amazing. There's a peak speed if you exceed it, they'll break off.
Kreger:
Absolutely. Every time.
Steven:
Every time what that is I do not know. You just kind of bought.
Kreger:
But and the I think The thing is I think it changes though, like throughout their interest level like. Because once you get them moving faster, you can continue to go a little faster normally. But The thing is, if you if you make that leap too quickly, if you make that that speed burst too fast, they're going right.
Steven:
Pasture. Yeah. And then there's, like a note. Away, the thing that I've learned a lot. In the early season especially Clearwater, when I got it right there he comes. Burst it. Oh, no, no, no, that was bad.
Jay:
That.
Steven:
Well, that was good, right? You get a lot, a lot of more lead time to play with them. And after you've got enough Muskies, you start playing around a little bit more. Right. I'll talk about it on Figure 8. There you go. Well, we boated 2 today. I can absolutely F with this fish now.
Speaker 6
Yeah.
Steven:
Yeah.
Kreger:
Absolutely.
Steven:
Ohh nobody like what can I do to make him not get it to sign it? And you maybe somebody that's like struggling to, you know, you want to glitch in your first trip or something like that. There you go. Sometimes it's fun to play with them, right?
Kreger:
Absolutely. See how they respond. Yeah, it it it teaches you and helps you so much at the end of the day. I mean, I know they're all a little different, but if you can kind of see that it, it sounds crazy, I get it. But if you see that spark in their eye like, you know.
Steven:
And and he learned.
Kreger:
It's no time.
Jay:
Ah yeah.
Kreger:
Like when you speed it up and it it's it's done like you know you have them at that.
Steven:
Body language, yeah.
Kreger:
Moment, you know.
Steven:
No matter what you do and.
Kreger:
And and that comes down to being able to kind of read the search I talked to you, you know, with science all the time. And like, because I'll tell him, you know, speed up or slow down and and it's tough because I know they haven't had the practice and I'm trying, you know, obviously to help them coach and it works, you know, quite often. But at the same time like it's yeah, it's just. I can see it in that fish. I know sometimes it's going to.
Steven:
Right.
Steven:
And how we know? What is it? We're dancing.
Kreger:
It's still. Look, I don't know, it's just it looks a certain way. It's like its kind of like flares, it's drills and there's one heck of a A tail kick.
Steven:
I can't.
Steven:
Guys, this is what. Happened.
Kreger:
And I I don't know.
Steven:
This is what me and Josh do when we hang out. It's really pathetic.
Kreger:
I mean, it's just, you know. I mean it is what it is, you know, it's been a long winter. It's nice, but you get excited.
Steven:
Well, heck, I mean, even when you're you're coming down and we're doing stuff here. Whatever it's doing like you just know and you just like. When you can toy with one, you know you can toy with him. You're just. And and all the best way I could put that and we're just riffing now, but the best way I could articulate that moment is they're essed up. Yeah, they're S the letter S, like Steve asked up. They have motion, momentum, tenacity. Opposed to you don't want the one that comes in like a log going. Ohh, man, but sneeze. My allergies are killed.
Steven:
Yeah.
Steven:
Speak. I am so apologetic. Sorry about that. We just had this big storm go through Josh and the like, everywhere I've been fishing. Looks like you just dropped flower on the surface. It's falling and it. But you see these fish? And they're reared up, they're and they're chomping at the bit.
Jay:
Ohh yeah.
Steven:
Yeah.
Steven:
And and I'll say this maybe you don't struggle with, maybe you don't struggle with catching fish or you're regularly successful, Josh.
Steven:
I think one of the biggest leaps you can make in just your general muskie fishing career. Forget the early season. Is when you're comfortable enough to start toying with the fish.
Steven:
Yeah.
Steven:
What will he do if I do this?
Steven:
Yep.
Steven:
What will he do if I do that?
Kreger:
I've I've learned. I mean, part of that is this is pan optics as. Well, watching my.
Steven:
Yes.
Kreger:
Business first, but like I've learned that a lot of times on some rubber grades, it's better to not even Figure 8, but actually drop your date down and lift it up, you know, and then dead stick when you bring it up, you know, and it's just there's nothing like that time. Do it again. Drop it.
Steven:
Dense stick.
Kreger:
Track down the source a lot of times. Turns nose down on it, you bring it back up and stick it at the surface, and at that point the surface. Is grabbing the bait.
Steven:
Yeah, which which is that first kind of or glide bait? Rubber bait. Glide bait. You could do it with, like, a Steves meat grinder. Or even any any Colorado spinner. But it is when you're willing to come out of the figure in dead stick, dropping the bait down and popping it up. Kind of like pseudo jigging. That first dead stick fish is like, whoa, there is another way.
Steven:
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Steven:
Whoa. It it. I remember the first time I did. I read. I can't even remember. I I'd have to go back in the Wayback Machine.
Kreger:
I I remember my first experience of watching it happen. It was down in Tennessee with you on the 47 1/2 that came.
Steven:
Uh-huh.
Kreger:
You missed your day. I'm like, I'm like ohh, this is miss you great? Yeah.
Jay:
Ohh no no no no.
Steven:
Hold on. No, no, hold on. Back it up. Back it up. Yeah. That. Was in OK folks, I'm talking to. My dear friends here, so forgive me. In the Steve Paul pimp moves that is like in the top five because I was trying to impress you, I was like.
Yeah, I know it wasn't worried.
Steven:
Tell me now. Tell the story from tell the story from the beginning. Now. Oh, my God. That fish that was like I dude, I was like, I didn't even type them. I was like ohh God please. But tell the story.
Kreger:
Alright, so this is yeah, this is early days. This is years ago and this guy he's throwing us like with like Bell. Think there's another bandit to it, like at this point, you know this is long before the tight move around that.
Steven:
Yeah.
Steven:
Yeah, long before right?
Kreger:
And so, he's doing this and.
Steven:
Like a gram. Paul.
Steven:
I'm on a.
Kreger:
River and I see this first come up and just it it rolls like over the bait and. Misses it and I'm like.
Kreger:
Holy Cow, I was like 1, just missed your date and literally he just goes. Just wait and I kind of like look over and then all of a sudden, this dish just comes up and grabs this shirt. They're just sitting there. And I'm like, oh, my goodness. Like, I've never. I've heard of it, but I've never actually seen it work. And.
Steven:
That was.
Jay:
And that was.
Kreger:
And it literally is just this piece of wood like float. You know with with 32 well sinkers on it, it looks like a piece of wood with two testicles underneath it, and it comes up and grabs it.
Steven:
That was. We gotta. I'll stay. I literally. I turned. It could just wait. Might have twitched it. He might not see that thing pop boom. That was funny because that was ohh. My goodness. I think the longest ride in the boat was 8 foot and it was high tech at that point. But yeah that.
Jay:
Ohh man.
Kreger:
Yeah, and fighting some heavy current and. Ohh yeah that was.
Steven:
Ohh yeah, you get freaking a Suick with as many bell sinkers hanging off and clanging. Yeah, that was that was that. Fish. It's funny. I had an audience for that of of stone cold. Why not? It's like of like. Yeah, he'll hit it. I just knew it would, you know, you just go. But.
Kreger:
We're just talking about that, though. Like, you know, sometimes you just know.
Steven:
He missed that fish straight missed and. That's why these things like that's a whole other subject of I do a lot of ripping, twitching retrieves in current, right? So, I fish and Josh has fish with me a bunch where. Legitimate mile and a half two-mile hour drifts, if not more at times, right?
Steven:
Yep.
Steven:
Fish will miss stretch. They will like gear up you twitch. You don't know he's behind it and they just like, come up behind and go. Just wait. Boom. Right.
Steven:
Muskies don't like to mix.
Kreger:
No, no, they're not.
Steven:
Fans and and I've may have told on the podcast before, the biggest I have a have a just a juggernaut. We're not talking a 51525354-inch fish on top water. One time I didn't deserve to catch it, but it missed it the first time. It it straight missed it and I was like I'm freaking out. Right? Yeah. And this is before I was calm. I'm trying. I try to remain icy now and.
Steven:
Somehow it missed it and I just kept doing what I was. Doing. And it just Auburn. It came back.
Steven:
Close.
Steven:
With like eat just so much venom, it was unbelievable. You know, like I think in a natural predation, like if a perch jukes or jives, they come back even harder.
Steven:
Yep.
Kreger:
Yeah, I think they're they're like they come on kiss, they're that.
Steven:
And that fish like he was mad, did you? That thing was mad. I was like, ohh yeah. Just wait, you know. So, I was like I, you know, I I remember. I think this was a four fish more.
Boom.
Steven:
Or something like it was. It was kind of spectacular. What?
Kreger:
Yeah, we. Yeah, we were on them. Yeah. That was like February or something like that, too, I think.
Steven:
Yeah, it was. It was fun. But that was that was a fun day. Yeah, long before the tight.
Speaker 6
Yeah.
Steven:
When when my game with Civics was how many rubber bands and sinker can I put on it? There you go.
Steven:
You know what? You love? My suits. Don't get me wrong. I've got. I could build a shed out of the amount of suits I have. Josh has seen it. We could. I could. I could bird cedar for warmth through the coming apocalypse, Jack.
Steven:
Yeah, yeah.
Steven:
Anyway, my God, this is what I'm sorry, folks. It's no longer podcasts. Me and Josh being stupid.
Kreger:
Yeah. Yeah, pretty much.
Steven:
So, Josh Kreger hands down the the the man, the myth, the legend of Eagle River. Josh, you're going to be doing the the Northwoods Muskie report so guys. If you're the Chicago land area or you're coming up for the Muskie shot bash in July, you're fishing up there. Josh is the guy to see. Obviously check him out. It's Eagle River muskieguide.com Josh, the the Northwoods Muskie report will be on the. Nap every week by Thursday morning is the goal right now? We'll have it there. He's going to cover all the important stuff. Other than that. Man. What? What are you thinking, man? What are you excited? Do you think it's going to be a good opener? Slow opener. Where's your brain?
Steven:
Yep.
Kreger:
I mean, I'm. I'm excited, as always, you know, and going in, I have, you know, kind of the game plan that I normally do this time of the year. And. We'll adjust accordingly if it's not working and then we'll come back. At the end of the day. That's most cute fishing, so.
Steven:
Everybody, I'll tell you what. Do you know what being a muskie God is? Job. What's that? Everybody's got plan A everybody.
Speaker
Yep.
Steven:
You got plan for through.
Steven:
Everybody's got plan a forget about it. We we've got plan A. We got plan A through F. Anyway guys, Josh will be at the bash this summer. Check out the Northwoods Muskie report. I'm sure he'll write an article too. Before this is. Is this over with the spring? And then in the early season there. Check it out. Be here on the app later, Josh. Jaybird. What do you think? Northwoods Muscle report with Josh Kreger. What do you think of?
Jay:
My man, let's be great. It's coming looking.
Steven:
- Forward to it. His boat is for rent.
Jay:
Yeah, that's one way of looking at it.
Steven:
To to any dude or government. Yeah, always. Always looking for a discount tent. Walleyes are not permanent but changes.
Steven:
Hmm.
Jay:
There you go.
Steven:
What do you do? You know, my goodness, Josh Kreger. Just a heck of a stick up North, Jay:. Somebody else we got to visit with somebody else. We need to dial in. On Jay:, yeah, I. Know the tube screaming itself, Jim Stewart, what do you?
Jay:
Say I can't wait to hear this.
Steven:
All right guys, I've got Jim Stewart, the tube screamer, owner of the Muskie shop. Hey, doing this evening, Jim.
Jay:
I'm doing great, baby. How about?
Jay:
You doing great, baby.
Steven:
He's gonna watch out. He's an animal, folks. Animal Jim. Well, right now, Muskie openers coming here very, very shortly. Wall eyes open in the Northwoods. Correct. It's like early game.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Jay:
Yep, Yep. Early game fish. It's been going. Started a week ago, and fishing's been really good. Well and pan Fish has been really good and I think muskies down South of of Hwy. 10, Highway 10, kind of a highway here in the in the UP in the north north part.
Steven:
Just kind of cuts cuts it in half.
Jay:
Yeah, yes, for sure and so.
Steven:
Stevens. What Stevens Point, you think?
Jay:
Yeah, right in that. Area and so South of there Muskie season is open but up. Most of there it's not so, but everybody's been fishing walleyes and bass and and bass isn't. You can't keep them, but you can fish for them. So, everybody's been fishing and fishing has been good. But as you know, when we're all musky. Crazy. So, we're we're waiting for the season to get started. In about a month. About two weeks, I guess. Memorial Day.
Steven:
Was scratching the itch so well. The cool thing is this. I I've I've talked to Bucher this evening. Josh Kreger. You know, we're we're we're getting loaded up here. He's getting their mind around this thing.
Steven:
Yeah.
Steven:
Yeah, super cool. Jim worked out a deal with the folks at maps and and and a lot of guys are like, well, maps has been around forever and maps doesn't do sales, but. They've done a huge sale on some. What I would say. And I don't even have this is not even shilling. Bates. This is just a fact. Some of the best early season musky bat baits, Mepps giant killer.
Jay:
Yeah, for.
Steven:
Sure. I mean, how many muskies have been caught on that bait, especially early season?
Jay:
The homeland.
Steven:
All of all of them.
Jay:
Card even. Yes, it's hard to even. Put a number to. It as just. Frosty. You know, he's been guiding at the shop for 400. Yeah, a long, long time. And his biggest was on a giant killer and he's he's buying him all the time, you know, they get kind of tore up or bent up over the years and and it's still his.
Steven:
Year.
Jay:
No2 Bates after many, many, many many years.
Steven:
Right, you got the giant killer. You got the tandem giant killer. Just the small stuff down to the number 5.
Jay:
Yeah, even the little number fives those little number fives and double fives early in the year. They do, they really do, you know, maybe not ******** muskie guys, but your average just customer coming in and wants to go and do some early season musky fishing, they'll buy the little.
Steven:
They play, they do.
Jay:
Number fives and and double #5. They always come in catching really big fish, so I think sometimes this, you know, if we've been doing it a long time, you know, we always want to grab some big, but man, I mean, we need to pay attention to those, those folks that are coming and using small stuff, especially during the year because it.
Steven:
Yeah, huge, yeah. It really works and that's why I want to call you because it it's, you know. We talked to Kreger, we talked to Bucher. You know, we're we're just making the rounds. Me and Jerry making. The rounds on this. But rubber meets Rd. when guys are coming in. Like I need four more. Of these and I, I and you go and that's the fun thing. Working with the Muskie shop you go ohh, you need a bunch more of these. Why? Because you just gotta you just got Donkey Kong, right? So, there's a reason and and down to that #5I. I think one thing that's missed by a lot of people. Jim.
Steven:
Yeah, yeah.
Jay:
Yep, right.
Steven:
You and I have talked about it and we did it last year on like the big kind of that next level video, the the complete muskie angler thing, French plates.
Steven:
Yeah.
Steven:
Big spin small advancement, where MEPs even makes these small French blades.
Steven:
Yeah.
Jay:
Yep, it's what is it, a different, a different vibration, I guess. And and with a different pump and.
Steven:
You know which. Right. It's different in different speed you know, because the front spins faster, it's lower speed, so more vibration, slower advance, which is interesting. Jay: and I talked about last week, Crane Bates are back in, you know obviously small Twitch baits, super buoyant baits where you're going.
Speaker 3
The help?
Steven:
This is not a lot of Twitch. This is not a lot of movement where it's pop, pop pals. One thing that I every time we talk, obviously we call you the tube screamer because you love you. You love pitching big rubber, but you love trolling, right? What would you say? And I'll preface to this Jim's twin and him, they love to troll. They're just all about it. Early season trolling.
Steven:
Uh-huh.
Steven:
You know, it's it's kind of one of these things and and I talked to Bucher about flatline trolling where we have early ice.
Steven:
Hmm.
Steven:
How? How quick will you jump on the troll?
Steven:
Uhm.
Jay:
Yeah, typically, I mean really he could start right away, but it depends on the weather and the water temperatures. If it's, if you got a a warming trend and the water is warming up and it's nice and sunny, yeah, then you know, cast for a while and maybe, you know, take a break and and then troll for two- or three-hours and. Then go back to casting. So, if the this kind of depends on the weather, but if the weather is decent and then this year it probably will be because we've had an early spring and the water temps are in the mid 50s already. So, I wouldn't be afraid.
Steven:
Right. To start right off the bat, that's, that's where I'm at because I I try to. I'm the. Quintessential devil's advocate, right?
Steven:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
You know where you go. Well, everybody's casting shallow and Bucher says Shallow Kreger says shallow. The the, the docket says shallow, right, when you guys have scored some of their biggest fish is early fall in Minnesota.
Jay:
Right.
Steven:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
What are the water temps like? 40s, fifties, right? I'm thinking. Jerk troll.
Steven:
Yes, right.
Steven:
Right, I'm thinking well, we got bad conditions. You know, you guys have your little place there, Minnesota, or, you know, whatever that setup is and and you've got that going on and going fish are staged in the same thing. Bucher talked early on the episode. You don't you don't have the luxury of hearing; he's going to throw the reeds right. Early season in Minnesota. Throw the reeds early Wisconsin throw the reeds.
Steven:
Yep. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Steven:
That's not dissimilar from the fall bite post spawn Muskies cold fronts Big Chop.
Kreger:
Up.
Steven:
I don't think it's all off the docket where you know, my good friend Duff will do that. Where you can get off that first break and really do some damage. Where's your brain go for jerk trolling? I know that's something you guys love to do, and I think it's super cool because you guys the dichotomy between Jim and his brother is amazing. Where you guys move as a unit, right? So.
Steven:
Those.
Steven:
Jerk trolling. We explained that kind of like the game plan. Like you're heading out. You guys probably don't talk. You just look at each other and it's like psychosis between the two of you and you, you know what you're doing? How? Do you have the game plan? How do you how do you implement that game plan for jerk trolling? Because you know early season jerk baits, trolling baits dive and rise? Always. Play. How do you make that happen?
Jay:
Yeah, I think it really does depend on the water temperatures. Now that I'm I'm we're just talking through it. You know, because it it'll work in the summer time, but it's typically the best when the water temps are probably 65 or lower. I know it's 666560 and then, you know, into the 50 and on that.
Steven:
Mm-hmm.
Jay:
Right.
Jay:
You know, in the fall it to ice up so. So, they're again, you know in the mid 50s it'll work now, you know, and a lot of times those fish are those postpones fish they.
Steven:
On.
Jay:
Going to do the thing and then slowly slide out to the mud, ring out over mud or some some edge and so just start working, you know, look on your locator and find the soft bottom and and there's going to be fish around there and fish, fish, the mud fish, any any type of structural edge or weed edge drop off edge. A lot of times they'll hang around those edges and that's. Where the. Dive and rise. Jerk trolling kind of works best around. You know, if you can keep them unweighted and out of the weeds, you know, if you're good enough to do that, then great, it'll work over the weeds. But you just gotta really pay attention to what you're doing and know what's down there. Otherwise, you're going to be hung up all the time and just kind of, you know.
Steven:
Not productive. What? What? What's kind of like this? So say. You're you're on the motor and and and John's on the rod, right? So. So Minnesota, you can what run 2 correct one per.
Jay:
Steven:
Per OK, so. John would be jerk throwing on the inside edge with with probably a Martin, a tightness suit, something like that right outside edge. What's that? Outside bait. What's the bonus rod doing?
Jay:
Same thing. Yeah. I mean, do you? You can run a crank on the outside and the jerk on the inside. But you there again. You really got to be very good at what you're doing. Are you going to get that crankbait tangled? It's it's typically the easiest and most efficient to run 2 jerk baits at a time, if that's what you're.
Steven:
Conscious, you know.
Jay:
Wanting to do. And then that one on the outside has extra weight or has it where it sinks? That's where it's going to run a little deeper and and a little longer line. Where is the one on the inside? Have it run a little shallower little.
Steven:
Hmm.
Steven:
Shorter line because if you look at it, it it's so funny and I think it's lost on so many people. We go oh, Muskies move shallow in the spring, right? Ah.
Steven:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
They moved in the fall. Ah, right. Ah. In a shocking twist.
Steven:
Yeah, yeah.
Steven:
Right, But what do the monsters do? They move in when most people don't realize her back said this the other night and I went, man, I have not thought about this in a long time and this is not on the podcast. It's just he and I talking right.
Steven:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
You know one musky spawn, not a loaded question, they spawn at night.
Jay:
- I did not know.
Steven:
That that is like me and Herbeck have seen it. That's kind of the argument. Like you don't see actually spawning the spraying of eggs. They kind of do the thing at night where the biggest of the big, big bigs are hanging off that edge, right, which I know, I know you guys love to troll. I listen. I've had as much pressure on me as you did. I would troll all.
Steven:
Do you love?
Steven:
The time too. I got there and just John run the boat. I've got to. Lay on the floor.
Speaker 6
Right.
Steven:
Folks, if he had to work with JSC for 20 plus years, you would shoot yourself. Jim is a St. He somehow he survived. Right.
Jay:
Ohh, poor Jay:.
Steven:
Like you've listened to the podcast, Imagine having that 24/7, right? The fact Jim has not killed him, this is shocking twist. But you know, you've got you guys, you know, you go out, you got your Saturday, your Sunday after church or in between or whatever it does cover some water. And I think for my per view.
Kreger:
Uh.
Steven:
If you always having open water, but I picked up some really big fish headlocks jerk trolling. Pre and postpone.
Steven:
Sure. Yep.
Steven:
Where I think that plays that Minnesota water, the clear water and we're on the outside edge. So, you know, just walk me through just as as basic as we can get. You don't have to give away all the secrets, but what would be the setup where we we think we're pre and or postponed we're regardless of where we think we're at and. In sort of the ice out thing.
Steven:
Basic. Yeah, yeah.
Steven:
With with base, jerk rolling have basic jerk trunks set up.
Jay:
Yeah, not rocket science. Get a rod. That's that's pretty stiff in the seven and a half to to 8 maybe 8 1/2. I wouldn't go any longer than that 7 1/2.
Steven:
People like the the the the Shield Rod 8-foot Troller.
Jay:
Extra heavy. Yeah, extra heavy. You want something? That's that's fairly stiff to to just make your jerk bait work properly. So not a super long ride. Seven and a half, 8 foot and maybe 8 1/2 extra heavy then a 30 inch leader and then the the biggest key to being successful. His consistency. A long sweep. You know 3-to-4-foot sleep and then back. You know, you sleep it ahead and then let it go back and then you just gotta it sounds hard or or boring. But if you keep keep doing that, you're going to catch fish. But the guys that don't catch fish and and sometimes you get friends and whatnot in the boat and they'll do it for maybe.
Kreger:
An hour or an hour.
Jay:
Like this and boring. And then pretty soon you see them moving at about 6 inches and they aren't going to catch anything. They're really not. But if you just stay consistent and just. Keep at it. You will be successful. It's a really good technique. You just have to be consistent.
Steven:
It's kind of like the the ultimate outside cast to an edge. Yeah. Yeah, it really is where you're going. The the the motor is driving the bait down. You're so when you pull it forward it goes down and we advance. So jerk bait down. Jerk. Bait up jerk. Bait down jerk bait up.
Steven:
Yes. Yep.
Steven:
Do they hit on the pause more often than not? What's your thought?
Jay:
It seems like it, yeah. Everybody's always said they do. And when you're in. The heat of the action you don't know for sure. But I I they do, they hit on the pause when you, when you stop and it goes back just a little bit. Damn, that's and muskies you can kind of tell Muskies and Northerns apart when they when you catch them because it's like northern just slams it and it's like a vicious hit whereas a a muskie is just on. All of a sudden you just have something on. Hmm. It's weird that way, but.
Steven:
And that's The thing is like.
Jay:
Like you can.
Speaker
Kind of.
Steven:
The one thing I'll give the Stewart boys. You guys are not playing with little.
Steven:
No.
Steven:
I mean, you just don't. That's the one thing I never see. Jim sends a picture of a 34 it. I don't get those. I get, I get Donkey Kong in above, right. It's just like. You know, you got the mounts in the shop and all this stuff. We need. The sad thing is, Jim, and just tell everybody how much do you get to fish when you own the muskie shop? Not enough, right? Right. There you go. I have every bait. The guy’s got more baits than than anyone will ever own. And his own more baits and.
Jay:2
Not enough.
Steven:
No.
Steven:
And whatever, don't get to fish enough. So, when you go out, it's like, let's swing for the fences, witches.
Speaker
Yeah.
Steven:
Proportionately casting. That's great that outside edge where we're going, well, if we're jerk throwing, we're below the level light penetration, we're on the outside edge. We're on these edges where big fish tend to be even in the early season. And that's the thing of like that early season trolling. Most guys don't capitalize on. Yeah, you know where I talked to Bucher about? He could even troll flatline troll during, much as his guiding career.
Jay:
For sure, Yep.
Steven:
Yeah.
Steven:
You talk about production. You go, wow. How many fish were missed where you went? OK, we had a little bit of cold front and there's a spin, though, right? Just off the edge or it's early falling. They're slightly suspended.
Steven:
MHM.
Steven:
Catching suspended Muskies when the majority of Muskies are suspended is like, oh, we need to cover water. But that jerk throwing thing, what would you say, you know, top three, top four jerk trolling baits for the Stewart brothers?
Steven:
Yeah.
Steven:
You know, regardless of seasonality, what do you think and what will we? Work. You know, is it, is it all? Dive and rise is it cranks? What are you guys thinking?
Jay:
It can be a little everything, but for the most part, what we've been successful by using is suits and bobbies. And Martin, so Martin hasn't made any longer. He made; he made them originally. He made make them again sometime. But the Bobby and the switch is is similar, you know weighted models weighted version. So, or if you're if you know if you're that guy that wants to stay close to the weeds go unweighted but for the most part. Didn't want to a 10- or 12-inch Suick waited and you know the the 10 or or so or bigger Bobby, that's waited and you get him to go as dive deep and and you know, just do your thing with.
Steven:
What? What would you think? What were you saying as the the average speed as far as boat advancement?
Steven:
Him.
Jay:
Yeah, that's a good question. It's not rocket science there either, but three, 3 1/2, they're again late in the year when the water you know gets starts getting below 50° into the 40s. And then as you go towards ice up into the 30s, you got to slow down. But when you're, you're constantly turning and working edges, so your baits are moving back. 4th you know behind the boat, but you don't want to go too fast, but you don't want to go too slow either, so you just kind of kind of get in tune with in your mind where your bait is at and what it's doing, and then that will help you be successful. But three 3 1/2 is a very calm and very.
Steven:
Right. Somewhere in the yeah. Very good, productive speed. Well that I think it's so important when you're looking for monsters, right? Again, limited time for some reason you own the world's best muskie store. The the the sin of that is you don't get to fish as much as you want to, but you want to catch giants jerk throwing. That's it. I mean, you guys proportionally catch monsters. So, adding that and I think the water temps systemic of that light penetration systemic of that you spent a billion years up there in the north.
Steven:
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Steven:
Buds outside of the Memphis what are some other things like guys like? Let's say they're wanting to just get into a muskie, right? Early season like the the Smitty Wizard, what are the other things where you go? Tactically we throw it, we turn the handle at shallow edges.
Steven:
Yeah. Yep.
Steven:
What are some things you see a ton of customers have always bought?
Jay:
Always bought Bucher 5 hundreds and seven hundreds. They've always been really good people. They've they've sold free, as you know. Gosh, I don't know, 25 years or so and they still do and they still catch lots of fish, you know, kind of a sleeper. And we've sold them for probably about 10 years as the. RJ bucktail? Yeah, they're really hard to get because they're limited, very limited in production, but man, they are really good. They catch a lot of fish.
Speaker 3
Oh yeah.
Steven:
We've done, we've done, we've done well together on the boat with that. Remember that trip with Kreger. Like I'm you. Just you guys are running like typical Bucktails. I had one, RJ, and we're like fighting over it and.
Steven:
Yeah.
Steven:
You know.
Steven:
Yep.
Steven:
Yeah, it it just runs a foot deeper and that was the entire difference.
Steven:
Yeah.
Jay:
Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
Steven:
Jim Twitch Bates. You know, there's a million of them, but you know, you got your cranes, you got your Bucher’s. What are you thinking? Maybe that slammer? Fatty, what's going on with Twitch Bates? Those early season minnow baits? What's kind of the sleeper there, where people are paying?
Jay:
Yeah, yeah, all those are good. They really are the the all that you just mentioned. You know Smitty has a, the, the Twitch and Smitty. That's a little longer maybe early in the season, it might be a tad loan, but hey, try it out you know, but otherwise that's a really good Twitch bait put the cranes. You know they're they've been around forever and the slammers.
Steven:
Right.
Jay:
Gosh.
Steven:
Yeah.
Jay:
Geez, I'm drawing a blank, but there's there's some really good ones. You know, the slimmer, fatty minnow Jay:s always using that thing. He's out there all the time. And, and I suppose, but, you know, he catches fish with it.
Steven:
Yeah.
Steven:
It's. We've done well with that. I I think kind of odd bait that falls in that or the small big fork stuff. Where are you going? Isn't, isn't it? It is that big fork baits. I don't go. They're. I don't think they're diving rice, right?
Jay:
Oh yeah, for sure. Yep.
Steven:
Yeah, yeah.
Steven:
I I never look at them like they're diving rides. I go. It's like a twitch. It's like it's this weird, like. Is it a crankbait? Is it a Dive and Rise it's somewhere in that neighborhood. It's it's just kind of like lives in its own world.
Steven:
Yes.
Jay:
Yeah, for sure.
Steven:
You know all the way down till you got the BNN stuff. You've got the little crawl crank. You know, things that are going to work in that shallow zone. That that.
Steven:
You know one.
Jay:
Another one not to cut you off that. Yeah, you know, Shallow Bucher, shallow Raiders. We've got a whole bunch, some new customs coming. They should be here next week. So. So keep your eye out for that. We should a bunch of new custom color Bucher stuff and in the shallow water and baby.
Steven:
Very nice.
Steven:
That I would say.
Jay:
Yellow later in the early in the year, those are really, really good dates.
Steven:
Well, obviously, Bucher talked about it. Kreger was talking about it. We're talking about it. That little baby shallow rider is is is a quintessential twitch for North Woods bait. Forget about it. You know, Canada bait. Forget about it. You need to have that there where you go.
Steven:
Yeah, for sure. Yep. Yep.
Steven:
You know, pop, pop, pop, pause, pop, pop paws or just a straight retrieve. It's always going to work, you know, it's it's one of those baits that always seems to.
Steven:
Yeah.
Steven:
Seems to work. You know, as far as let me ask you this, Minnesota orders are going to have the shop, you know that's that the guys we're just going to call Michael him, we see everything Jim knows all. The guys of Minnesota, Lotta lot of off off stagger blades, right, lot of odd blades.
Steven:
Yeah, yeah. Yep.
Steven:
If I'm thinking odd blades that savage gear stuff that's coming out is is about as odd as it gets, you know.
Steven:
Yeah. Isn't that the truth? Yeah.
Steven:
You know, sorry, Danny Herbeck. I'm sorry, Danny, but nonetheless, they've got a little weird 10595, Jim.
Speaker 2
Yeah, they both.
Steven:
Whoa. What? What?
Jay:
Difference a different way of labeling you know than than than everybody else, but they're pretty cool baits, you know, they got the the eight and the 95 and the the 10-5 and yeah. Yep.
Steven:
Well, then, they're all half sizes too. It's one of those things like. Never have I been like, OK, I am the master of the highly pressured water. I'm not.
Speaker
Not.
Steven:
But we hear and we see so many off sized blades. On highly pressured water, where the savage gear stuff is about as crazy as you get 8 1/2 seven and a half nine and a half eight and a half half size plates, you know that's as as crazy as you can get down the rabbit. All one. One thing to ask, you've heard a lot of wall eye catchers coming in right now, right, walleye.
Steven:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep, Yep.
Steven:
Pike. Clearwater stain water were you hearing? What? What's kind of the the cycle?
Jay:
Stained water, dark water and smaller lakes up here are way more productive this time of year simply because they warm up faster. You know the bigger lakes, Trout lake and and you catch some big wall ice and and some numbers but but if you really want to just have more action and. Not fight the boats. You know, there's lots of little lakes and the darker water, shallower lakes. I think so, I suppose because they warm up quicker and you know, frosty and a few of the guides, they just bounce around those small lakes and they catch a bunch. Of. Fish all the other day, cut Wallace and. Southeast and Bass and northern, all in the same spot. And now he bang a couple and then they stop and he'd have to keep moving to find them because they were spook. But he just moved 20 feet or 20 yards, I should say, and then he'd find the fish. He'd catch two or three and he said he had a ball. He did it did it all.
Steven:
Day. That's one. And then I'm not showing for the shop. Obviously we're we're good friends here, but.
Steven:
Yeah, yeah.
Steven:
That's one thing. If you're kind of a multi species guy, there's no shame in that game at the Muskie shop.
Steven:
Yeah.
Jay:
No, it's fun.
Steven:
Oh my God. Frosty Freddy.
Jay:
Yep.
Steven:
Like Freddy I pick on him all winter long and and Jodie picks on him. You pick. Everybody picks on Fred and it's a sport, Jim. But you know he's always on crappie, which is, which is a heck of a thing. Then when you're a muskie angler.
Jay:
Love Fred.
Jay:
Yeah, it works.
Steven:
Yeah.
Steven:
You know, so. And and Josh Kreger said earlier he's like, OK on three lakes chain, it's good to know when they're on wood, right?
Steven:
Sure.
Steven:
You can you could drop by the shop and find that where are they at in the life cycle. So if you're a ******** Muskingum, it's worth the call, or you're just worth the stop by just to know. I mean, cause frosty or somebody there will know. Just bother them, cause go, put your, put your coffee down and tell me what's.
Steven:
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah.
Steven:
Going on please.
Jay:
Yeah, we we honestly, we don't mind anyone ever calling or stopping by and want information. Hey.
Steven:
No work.
Jay:
That's part of it. That's we all want to have a good time when we get out there, so we'll be. We'll be glad to help anybody, any way we can.
Steven:
And that's that's that's come. We've always laughed about it. Like everybody hides like what are they using and What Car we're gonna now here's what color and what we're doing and what we're doing with it. And and there's plenty of fish to go around and I think. That very early season. Yeah. You know, or the croppie pre spawn post spawn where they stage because the bait fish are always going to dictate everything. Like you even said with your your your jerk trolling.
Steven:
Yeah.
Steven:
I need bait fishing. I need an edge so it it could be systemic of that.
Steven:
Yep.
Steven:
One more question and I'll leave you to that. We get on the big Clearwater, right?
Steven:
Steven:
Big girl water.
Steven:
Yeah.
Steven:
What's the biggest trolling presentation you think will work within season opener? The first two weekends is like 10-inch headlocks 10-inch Mattlocks we're swinging for the fences. We're not going for; we're going for something way above 45.
Jay:
Yeah. I mean, I'd say 10-inch, 10-inch Mattlocks. They gotta be a little bit of a wider wobble. And if you can, you know, there's speeds probably, you know, you don't want to be going real fast this time of year. Here, so it's got a wider wobble. Let that thing get down and wander, wander and just go back and forth and wobble. And that would be a really good day with the different settings. Yeah. Ivans. Yeah. Those would be good. Yeah. Anything a big wide wobble. Don't go too fast. But yeah, you can cover.
Steven:
Ivans.
Jay:
Water. Yeah, excellent. Bates.
Steven:
What do you what do you think it is it gonna be like on a on a trolling thing? Shallow. Are we going for, like, a wide because it's all proportionate. Let me back it up and say that.
Steven:
Yeah.
Steven:
50-inch fish is not too interested in minnows, right? And in the last three years I've talked to talked to Bucher about this the last three years. Last year was the worst. What the second worst winter on record for the Northwoods.
Steven:
Yeah, yeah.
Jay:
Yeah, pretty long and bad, that's for sure.
Steven:
Yeah. And the winter before that was not great. And the winter before that was bad.
Steven:
Yeah. Yep.
Steven:
Where we go, they've had more time. It's a big fish. Proportionally, is a 50 gonna eat minnows and be out there screwing around with tiny stuff? Or is a 10-inch bait proportionally a small meal for one of these things? Or you know, 10-inch headlock or a crazy Ivan? Or, you know, a grandma? Do you think it's all? Do you think that stuff?
Steven:
Yeah.
Steven:
Off the off the deck this year? Or would somebody be crazy? Or do you think?
Steven:
No.
Steven:
Hey, let's fish the shallot. Yeah, I don't think so.
Jay:
You know you wouldn't be crazy at all. Either I don't think you'd be crazy at all. We've kind of always said too, it's like, sure always start small to medium. However, if that doesn't dictate any success, don't box yourself in by not trying anything big cause. Like you just said, those big girls, they they see something they wanna, you know, they want a meal and you better get a monster by by increasing the size of your lower.
Steven:
Be done. Yeah. And, you know, you look at it like half the decades, Ben, you better be.
Steven:
Oh.
Steven:
Small. You know, I think if if I went a year back in the pocket, be like what rattle trap are you using? Right. You know what? What? What bat? What crappie jig is Fred catching muskies on?
Jay:
Yeah, for sure.
Steven:
Yeah. Yeah.
Steven:
When the ice came off verse, you don't get this opportunity very often where you go. OK, the fall, the spring, same deal. Deep edge, big baits. The the biggest of the big have. They're accessible for a small window they're accessible.
Steven:
Yeah. Yeah.
Steven:
You know, so fantastic. Well, Jim, you you could ready 8 and it's and it's not a sales pitch folks, if you have a question you have anything you need you can call the muskie shop, you can walk in there need need your walleye gear in the next couple weeks. Come up there they got fatheads.
Steven:
Absolutely. Yep, Yep.
Steven:
Sorry, sorry. That's that's a I just checked my fat heads. Jim only got 11. Ohh, sorry. Anyway, well, guys, that's Jim the tube screamer Stewart. Well, OK one.
Bucher:
Yeah. We knew.
Jay:
That's hilarious.
Steven:
What thing? Sorry, you're going to kill me. Outside of fat heads. Some rubber baits work, but I would I would say this I don't think of tubes off the off the docket though you. Love tips?
Jay:
Yeah. Oh, no. For sure. I'll throw a shallow tube early in the year 7 1/2 or A10, but mostly probably 7 1/2 shallow. Just get that thing to just dancing above the weeds and fasting. Oh yeah, absolutely.
Steven:
Yeah.
Steven:
Absolutely that, that gym gym is the tube working tube. Listen.
Steven:
Yeah. Once.
Steven:
He's the tubist freak I've ever seen.
Jay:
Uh.
Steven:
Freak, you're the.
Steven:
Heavy word there freak is the keyword there. Man, that thing looks like a pose. Giant jackpot. Jim can have a heavy weighted 12-inch big sexy tube and it's 12. It's 12 inches below the water. Well, what do you say? Ohh God.
Jay:
Tube free this.
Steven:
But you get the strikes. That's the thing. It's like the most erratic thing ever seen. But yeah, big rubbers off the dock that I I should have mentioned that we're trying to wrap here, but some of the small, shallow rubber I think is overlooked. Wouldn't you mind?
Steven:
Yeah. 1st. Sure. Yeah, yeah.
Steven:
Where like. If I'm looking for a reaction strike shallow bulldog a 7.5 red October.
Jay:
Dawgs alpha Dawgs, right. A little higher in the water. They're great for early in the year above, you know, or any any time of the year. But above the cover they sink. They're like they're a little tad heavier than a shallow dog. So, they're kind.
Speaker 3
All.
Jay:
Dogs.
Jay:
Of in between.
Steven:
In.
Jay:
With the bigger tail and bigger thump. Yeah, bigger profile. So, yeah, they're they don't think quite as fast.
Steven:
Yeah. Why? Why? Why rubber presentations don't fall to the same thing like so. I've caught fish on like 700 Bucher tail days. And an alpha dog days. Right. So, they're not going to eat 10s, but they'll eat a 700 single blade, but they want an alpha though. And like what you're saying is, like, so the alpha dog, which is is accustomed to the musky shop, it's not shallow it. It's kind of that, that in between you don't have to, you don't have to break your back.
Steven:
Yeah.
Steven:
Yeah.
Steven:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
To get it there. But the fall off rate is different. I think a lot of that is like that's kind of the. Being an idiot, I'll back it up. It's almost the inverse of jerk throwing with the slower descent, right? So, a slower rise when we're jerk trolling versus slower descent on big rubber. Yeah, and and not be afraid of like that, that shallow that 7.5 or like, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop for that reaction strike.
Steven:
Yes.
Jay:
Yeah, for sure.
Steven:
You know which is. You know, you get your micro dogs and your micro. If they want something rubber, just give them rubber. Give, give them, give them the full tilt and you know.
Jay:
Yeah, there's always principles. You know, we kind of go by and our fishing lives and. And, you know, we're all getting out of the water. We all have principles. But don't the key is don't box yourself in, you know, like you just brought up rubber. Yeah. Don't be afraid to use that.
Steven:
No, I I some of the big it's always. It's always the. Outlier techniques that catch the biggest fish.
Steven:
Yeah, that's for sure, yeah.
Steven:
You know he is. I mean, as a guide and and and I'm going to segue into the Muskie shot bash in a second. But you know, as a guy I'm worried about. Like, could we have to catch a fish? We're not go for Donkey Kong like the Stewart Boys where they just kept 40 pounders. Like it was nothing. But it was their job. Just once a year.
Steven:
Yeah, right.
Steven:
Here's the is this donkey, but uh, Speaking of a good time, Muskie shot bash coming up. Last weekend of July this year, correct.
Jay:
Yeah, the 20th you have Saturday, July 20th. Yep.
Steven:
20 shots last weekend, but it's the 20th this year. It's going to be vendor tactic. I mean, from the commitments we have.
Jay:
Yeah, a lot. There's a lot, yeah.
Steven:
Yes. Just baits going out like crazy. There's going to be sales specials. I don't know. I'm just making things up. What are you? What's happening, Jim?
Jay:
Yeah, it's a fun day. It really is. It's. And for us that are working, but it's fun for everyone involved. I think everybody that comes, there's music, we have music playing. Everybody just walking around and hearing. We have Freddy's there; he's cooking brats and hot dogs. And I'm telling you and I'm not trying to, you know, with people's arm to come, but it really.
Steven:
Friends there.
Jay:
Truly is a fun day where you're you're just talking muskies with everybody and learning about muskie fishing and having a good time. We had some tuna. Plan. It's a blast. It really is. And. And so I hope everybody will join us and and and learn a lot. And just to just.
Jay:
Have a ball? Yeah, it's.
Steven:
Probably you know some. I've been to the Muskie show. It's is it's the most chill kind of. It's not even show. It's just like, hey, let's hang out in the hang out. We're in the parking. Yeah.
Steven:
Yeah, yeah. Yep.
Jay:
It's just like you said, chill. Just have a good time talking Muskies with your buddies or whomever, or you know the person you don't even know. You bump into somebody. Hey, how's it going? I'm pretty seeing you.
Steven:
Bucher or Herbie?
Jay:
This this great conversation about Muskies and you might learn about a new lake or a new.
Jay:
Area or you?
Jay:
UM and rebate or?
Steven:
Or you you run into Jay: and you get creeped out and you wanna leave? I mean, you know, Jay: Corners you against big red and you feel uncomfortable.
Speaker 3
- Sorry.
Jay:
That's alright man.
Steven:
So, we we have a great time. It's not a muskie show. It's like Bucher told me. We were talking about. He's like, OK, when? As a. And him and Beth come out, and it's just a different vibe. It's just it's a hangout. It's a hang. It's not a show. We're just like.
Steven:
Yeah. And and.
Steven:
Yeah.
Jay:
And for the people that that attend, you know they're gonna get to meet all the all the vendors. There's a lot of vendors that will be there that that maybe they've never met before and and we're going to have a look.
Steven:
I'm excited about. We got some week coming.
Jay:
Interaction with all of them and it's it's going to be.
Steven:
A blast. We got suit coming this year. I think for the first time, right?
Jay:
Yeah, I'm pretty sure. Yeah. Pretty sure they're going to.
Steven:
Since 6:00, especially there.
Jay:
Be able to make it.
Steven:
Maps. What's the deal with maps? I think they're going to custom bucktail for for kids under 13 or something.
Jay:
I think so. Yeah, I heard something like that.
Steven:
Jay’s making balloon animals. Toms got a Taser for Jay: when he makes balloon animals, but we've got some cool stuff. Local stuff. I mean, we're talking all the way down to the guys from Wolverine split rigs. I think they're coming back. Where you go?
Steven:
Yeah.
Jay:
Well.
Steven:
If you're a musky nerd and you wanna get down the rabbit hole of what matters. Ask the guy that makes your split rings right and I'm being serious. Like we're like, like these guys. Are you wanna get nerdy? Let's get nerdy boys in a good way. You know, you got fellowship of Christian muskie anglers. You got live. He's gonna be there. Unfortunately, Jim in a in, in a, in a savage.
Steven:
Yeah.
Jay:
- Know that's a fact.
Steven:
Yeah, yeah.
Steven:
Twist the Smithies are coming back.
Jay:
They are coming.
Steven:
Back. They have disregarded every restraining order. They've disregarded the judge in Minocqua. It doesn't matter what you do. The Smith.
Jay:
I you know what, Steven, I think they're coming back. Cause last year we gave them a each. Jake and Russ, we give him a couple of the Minocqua mud that is. A really thick coffee we make.
Kreger:
And they lived and.
Jay:
They if they said we're coming back.
Speaker 3
To get one next year.
Steven:
They're coming back. We've got, we've got another disgusting energy drink coming out this year that should be banned, you know.
Jay:
It's just black coffee, but sounds bad. We call it managed with MUD, but manage stick.
Steven:
Upset.
Steven:
Monaco. They haven't cleaned boys, they've not cleaned the coffee pot at the muskie shop since Jim bought the place, right? It. They just keep no one's changed the filter. You just put more grounds on top of what? What was in there? I, Jim, I'll. I'll tell. I'll leave you on this.
Kreger:
You said.
Speaker 3
That's it.
Steven:
There was one day I was a little bit, let's just say under the weather. Right, Jim, you know, I I was a little dragon, right? Ohh, Steve, slow. In a shocking twist I had that I could have painted the 16 Chapel and roofed your house in 30 minutes.
Steven:
Yep, Yep, Yep.
Steven:
That that the Minocqua mud. I couldn't feel my teeth, nor could I feel my.
Jay:
Like oh man.
Steven:
Anyway guys, JS will be making balloon animals. Bring your gun. Alright, Jim. Thank you so much my friend.
Jay:
There you go.
Jay:
Thank you. Have a good. 1.
Jay:
Steven:
Information over *****.
Jay:
Almost too much to handle.
Steven:
To handle.
Steven:
What do you do when it's too hot? It's like a James Brown. How hot is it? Hot tub, Jay: hot.
Jay:
Get in the hot tub.
Bucher:
In the water.
Jay:
And finally, finally latched up there. Come on, Jake.
Jay:
No one did it better than Eddie Murphy.
Steven:
Where's the hot tub?
Jay:
At in the wash tub, don't know. You can't. You have to do the.
Steven:
James ramp punch.
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Steven:
Anyway, yeah.
Jay:
Sorry guys, the old Clyde.
Steven:
Stubblefield what? What do you do? What? Do you do? So, gearing up, I mean it's going to be the, the quintessential fast start to think in the North Woods, Jay:, we talked earlier you went out on the water, you saw some ***** poos your your upper 50s on the river. I mean it is. What it is? Get in, get in the muskie shop. Get geared up, Jay:. Say good. And then you guys let me hear your best dream for round two.
Jay:
Ohh my toe.
Jay:
Too high, even too high.
Jay:
Ripping.
Speaker 6
Cool. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey.
Speaker 2
I did it all for the movie. Come on, come on. So, you can take that and stick it up. Your pick it up. Your stick it up your yeah. I did it all for the. Movie. Come on. Come on. So. You can take that cookie and stick it up here. Now if you off your. Yeah, stick it off your yeah.